need to sell alot of C&R's

[Fate]

Auction house is a waste of time. Contact Dennis Kroh at Empire Arms http://www.empirearms.com/ or Allan Schisel at Allan's Armory http://www.allans-armory.com/aa.php

Both of these guys are 100% fair, honest and easy to work with. They buy whole collections. I'd highly recommend them rather than going for auction and ending up with unsold items.

[zatoh]

+1 go see Dennis

Auction house is a waste of time. Contact Dennis Kroh at Empire Arms http://www.empirearms.com/ or Allan Schisel at Allan's Armory http://www.allans-armory.com/aa.php

Both of these guys are 100% fair, honest and easy to work with. They buy whole collections. I'd highly recommend them rather than going for auction and ending up with unsold items.

[-hanko]

Auction house is a waste of time. Contact Dennis Kroh at Empire Arms http://www.empirearms.com/ or Allan Schisel at Allan's Armory http://www.allans-armory.com/aa.php

Both of these guys are 100% fair, honest and easy to work with. They buy whole collections. I'd highly recommend them rather than going for auction and ending up with unsold items.

First, major +1 to Dennis at Empire Arms; his reputation precedes him. I've hand no dealings w/ Allen Schisel so I can't comment.

A lot depends on the rarity of the guns in your dad's collection...having an expert take a look at your inventory will let you know if you should ask $100 or so for a bunch of clunkers or a bunch more for some desireable and valuable guns. You'll probably have a little of both and a bunch in the middle.

If you happen to find a Spanish FR-8 rifle (it will be clearly marked 'FR-8' on the left side of the receiver just above the stock), please keep me in mind. In fact, I wouldn't mind looking at the entire inventory when you're finished.

My prayers are with your dad.

Take care.

-hanko

[cactus]

The same thing happen with my grandfather he swore he was 19 and fresh in the army towards the end. I dont know how my grandmother survived when he though he was back in the Chosin Resevior. Eventually he ended up in the VA in Livermore; Hard times. We had to remove all the weapons from the house because in small times of sanity he became suicidal. Good luck to you and your family. Id love to see some of his weapons for sale here but I have a feeling your time would be better spent with him. Good luck to you.

[Rhys898]

I have never sold anything through these guys but have bought at their auctions. They aren't too far away and you might check them out. Hope this helps.

http://www.gunslingerauctions.com/

Jer

[.22guy]

You should keep a couple of them as family heirlooms.

[Full Clip]

F
My prayers are with your dad.

+1
I wish I'd had the class to say this in my original post.

[762cavalier]

My prayers are with your dad also. My MIL has the same problem.

As has been mentioned. Give Dennis at Empire Arms or Alan at Alan's armory a chance. I have dealt with both of them and they are exceptionally honest and upstanding. Dennis especially will buy whole collections and will give you a fair price without the hassle of selling one by one.

[SVT-40]

Travism, I do consulting work for Gunslinger auctions. The commission for selling items at our auction is 20%. There is a auction coming up on March 15. The auction is filling up so It would be good to call as soon as you can. We usually run auctions about every five months. Our auctions do real well. Last auction we sold a collection of around 100 C&R rifles for an estate. They netted over 25K and were quite happy. We will also come to you to pick up the items you want auctioned. Call the store at 626-914-7010. Ask for Jeff tell him Jim sent you. Regards SVT-40

[NeoWeird]

Not to step on anyone's toes here, especially since I know you guys are trying to help, but unless you were in dire need of money I would not go to an auction house.

Just to use the last post as an example. They got $25k for their 100 guns. Sounds great like they got a lot of money. Even if that is POST 20% taken off that's only an average of $250 a gun; which is right up there with the going rate of most surplus rifles right now; let alone special rifles like the Ljungman you mentioned which can easily go for $500-$1k for that rifle alone. You also have to keep in mind that your average joe doesn't own more than 10 firearms. People that own 100+ firearms are collectors and they know what they are buying and what makes them valuable. Add in the age of your father and most of these are probably not import marked and a good number are probably matching serials. You probably have an array of oddballs and uniques guns as well. I can all but guarantee that these are NOT Russian captured K98s with CAI import marks engraved on the side.

I would be willing to bet that you have a very healthy and exspensive collection on your hands. If you need the money that's one thing, but if you just don't want the hassle than that's a completely different story because you are talking about dropping half (or more) just for the convience. Even if that was a full time job; would you do it for $25k? I know I would.

If I were you I would take a couple pictures; nothing fancy because most guns can be identified right away by their appearance alone. Once you know what you have you can go from there. Seeing as they can be gifted to you directly from your father, and you can in turn sell them cash and carry if they are over 50 years of age the need to waste money on a middle man, auction house or FFL, is pointless.

Again, if you need the money right away it's a different story, but don't sell the collection at half price and then lose 20%+ on top of that just for convience. It's just not worth it.

[SecondAmendmentgirl]

My dad has about 100 different C&R rifles that he bought on a C&R license. He did not keep records as he should. Unfortunatly he is getting mildly demented and does not know what they are. He needs to sell them for financial reasons. I dont have a clue what they are. I also dont really have an intrest in C&R. Where and what can i do? Take pictures and post them on this web site? He went to Little johns auction house and they told him they would auction them and take 33% I think he could sell one by one better

If a gun shop/store can recommend an appraiser, you might consider finding out if it's worth your while ot sell them individually or cut your losses and eat the 33%, which seems pretty high in my experience. Anything over 25% and they better guarentee ALL of them are sold, rather than just the highly sought after ones or you could be stuck with 50 rifles after the auction is over.

[caldude]

As has been mentioned. Give Dennis at Empire Arms or Alan at Alan's armory a chance. I have dealt with both of them and they are exceptionally honest and upstanding. Dennis especially will buy whole collections and will give you a fair price without the hassle of selling one by one.

+1 Not only will they probably take the whole collection off your hands, but it may also allow collectors to have easier access to the collection versus an auction. And I'm sure the price you get will be better than the auction pricing - commission (20%, 33%, or whatever).

[Boomer1961]

I recommend taking a Saturday and cataloging them as best you can by type/model/country/caliber, condition on the percent scale then by bluing, barrel condition (shiny, dark, sharp rifling, pitted), outside steel condition (rusted, plumb, pitted), stock condition, markings and arsenal marks/cartouches, WOW FACTOR!, and so on.

A three line description for each on a list taking you ten minutes of your time.

The same thing an auction house would do for 33% of value (of average $250 meaning $80 for 10 minutes of your time).

Take group pictures, post your list here and at other forums.
As was said earlier for your additional work double your money.

At auction houses typically the 2 or 3 or 7 most valuable firearms disappear off the top. Then they get a cut, then charge fees, and pick buyers that they tell the real value so they bid accordingly.

This is not a household item you don't want to throw away because it works and has value so you sell on ebay where they take 10% with ebay and paypal fees.

You posted at this forum so use these gun forums to get the real values then maybe sell the most 10 valuable yourself then have the auction house sell the rest for you if you do not have time.

Shoot, I might like to buy one from you just for the story.

Also as was said, do any of these firearms have meaning to you that makes you think of your Father, maybe something you shot together, maybe something with a WWII story of his war bringback, or.....if so keep those as they are priceless.

I lost that for my grandfather 15 years ago, and I was working overseas when he died, they did an estate sell and sold pennies on a dollar and included a US calvary sword with an 1848 stamp (he promised it to me as a child and said he got a hold of it when he was in the State Calvary), three japanese swords from WWII, a pristine US calvary saddle and so on and it all sold for $8k. Just one of the Japanese swords alone I know was worth $25K. Funny thing the buyer gave away his mechanic tools worth $3-$4k i figured (he was retired) to a neighbor just for him to get them out of the house by the date. He was a construction contractor then US Navy Sea Bee and at two famous battles had to bury remains of battle casualties and picked up allot of stuff at the expense of horrible nightmares for the rest of his life where my grandmother said she was hit and pushed and yelled at several times in the middle of the night.

Those vultures knew what they were buying and it included allot more than I said including a genuine jap battle flag and nambu and other jap firearms. as well as stuff from being in the last L48 US Federal calvary and being in the national guard US calvary and also his time as a Navy Sea bee including war bring backs.

Moral of the story is NO BULK SELL. Check it out for yourself.

[Addax]

I have used on line dealers and auction houses.

I used to collect (buy, sell , trade) allot of German G/K43 Semi Auto Sniper rifles, Enfields, Mausers etc. lots of WW2 stuff.

I have dealt with Empire Arms, Simpsons LTD, as well as Little Johns and I have sold a few C&R items with Gunslingers Auctions and Gunrunners Auction (Ohio Gunrunners).

Dennis Kroh at Empire Arms is a great dealer to work with, and I have also worked with Simpson LTD and they are also great with selling large C&R collections.

Since this is such a large collection it may be better to consider the Local Auction House like Little John's. The reason is, that you won't have to deal with shipping a 100 rifles (That could easily run you about $2-$3k for 100 rifles shipping UPS or Fed Ex Ground at $20-$30 per rifle), and you still have to pay the dealers consignment fees on top of the shipping fees for the rifles.

If you walk in to the Auction Houses, and you know you have something valuable, it is hard for them to chew you up, because they will really want quality pieces for their auctions, and the higher the bid, the more $$ they make, and in turn the seller makes. Yet, if you walk into an Auction House and some dealers for the matter, without knowing what you have, many will take advantage of you.

Another idea would be to help sell them online on Gunbroker etc. and utilize one of the local dealers for FFL transfers. This way you can avoid the dealer and auction house consignment or sales fees, and all you pay is a simple transfer fee and a few bucks per auction to Gunbroker, but you will most likely get top dollar or close to it on GB.

I am just speaking from experience.

I also PM'd an offer to help check out and identify the rifles, and the offer still stands.

[SVT-40]

The decision to sell a relatives collection is a very important and private decision. Once the decision to sell a large collection has been made the next decision is how?

Basically there are four ways do it your self . At a gun show, via internet auctions or message boards, to a retailer or through an auction house. I have been involved in assisting clients appraising as well as auctioning their collections for a number of years. Frankly most folks have no idea what an effort it is to dispose of a large collection.

If you go the gun show route you have to case and transport all 100 rifles to the show, then carry them in and display them. If you display all 100 rifles you will probably need at least three or more tables. Tables will cost around $80 per table so the show would cost at a minimum $240 plus lodging and food for the weekend. You have to be sure all transactions are made legally. With the entire legal burden being placed on your shoulders. Only C & R rifles may be transfered between unlicensed parties. all others must be transfered through a licensed dealer. There is no guarantee all the rifles would sell and that would mean transporting the leftover rifles back home and storing them until you attend another show.

If you use internet auctions you need to photograph all 100 rifles this usually involves numerous photographs per auction as well as the time to list and monitor the auction. You then pay a fee to the internet auction house. Then you have to box and ship all 100 rifles. There is a major amount of work in the packaging alone. Then you need to make however many trips as completed auctions to the UPS hub or USPS office. Remember the local UPS store at the mini mall will not accept firearms. You also have to deal with dead beat non paying buyers as well as buyers who want to return items.

If you sell on internet boards there are usually no fees but you have all the same hassles with packaging and shipping as well as listing each item and dealing with many emails or P/M's per rifle. You also have to deal with unsatisfied buyers at times.

If you deal with a retail seller such as Empire or Alan's (both of which are very honest) you have to realize they will not pay retail or top dollar for your items. They need to buy them at a discount so they in turn can resell them. That is the nature of their business. You then need to package and ship all 100 rifles the cost for shipping each rifle would run around $25 If you include the cost of boxes and packaging materials the total cost would be around $3,000 .

A reputable auction house is the fourth way to dispose of a large collection or just a few guns. There are no worries about the legal sales or dealing with buyers. That is one of the things you pay the 20% fee which our auction house charges.

I agree a 33% fee is a rip off!!

At our auction there are no "lost" or "disappeared" firearms If you list it with us we are responsible for it. In all the years we have been running our auction we have lost ZERO items. All items are listed and sold at a true auction no funny stuff involving shady or underhanded deals as mentioned above.

For larger numbers of items we usually offer to pick them up from the seller. We give the seller an itemized list of each item or lot they wish to sell. We transport the items to our shop and go over each one to be sure it's safe and as described. A catalog is made and the auction advertised. The day of the sale we transport the items to the auction location and have the auction. After words we transport the items back to our shop. The next day the new buyers can start the ATF and Calif paperwork.

We make sure all the buyers are not prohibited from owning firearms and after the 10 day wait the buyers pickup their new treasures.

You get your cash after the auction. What ever your item or items sells for minus the 20%. No hassle. Thats what we are paid to do.

Our auctions are very well attended with usually around 200 bidders. Bidders pay no fees or admission to attend. If you don't buy anything it's a free gun show. The only time a buyer is charged a fee is if a purchase is made. The buyer pays a 10% buyers premium (which is on the low end of the scale for auction houses) on top of the actual hammer price.Our last auction in November had 356 lots 300 were firearms. All lots were sold. We had ZERO complaints from sellers about the money they realized from the auction. For the next auction we are negotiating with Proxy Bid so we can open up our auction to internet bidders. This would not cost the sellers anything more and would potentially obtain higher realized prices for their items.

Auctions are not for everyone, but most folks don't want to endure the hassle of selling this many firearms. The service we provide does have costs. But in the long run for most people it's worth it to avoid the basically full time job of selling this many firearms as well as avoiding the many legal pitfalls.

If you do decide to use an auction house find a reputable one that has low fees and will provide the services you want.