Were did the C&R's from the lesser WW2 country's go?

[Clipity]

I did a search the other day to see what France and some other country's used during WW2. I'm sure if I went to GB or some other auction site I might find them but where they ever surplused? I'm guessing I'm just late to the party and they where sold off many years ago. Or the fact that some where in limited supply during the war that not many survived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_World_War_II_infantry_weapons

Intresting that China had weapons from both sides and had copied some also. So even 60+ years ago they were making copys of products.

[TheExpertish]

Well the problem with France is that they get invaded and occupied so production comes to a halt. Lesser countries than that purchase arms from other countries. Weapons everywhere have been surplused at one time or another unless the raw materials were needed elsewhere. Stuff is out there and GB is a good place to start. Is there something in particular you're looking for?

[mosinnagantm9130]

The surviving rifles from most of those countries came here. France used the MAS36 primarily during WW2, they run in the $250-300 range.

[billybob_jcv]

French rifles: "Never fired, only dropped once."

[McNally M.]

I've wondered that myself. I mean take the Carcanos for instance. Its fairly common to see the carbines at shows but where the hell did all the standard rifles get exported to? You typically 2-3 carbines per every long rifle Carcano. In my experience...

[mosinnagantm9130]

I've wondered that myself. I mean take the Carcanos for instance. Its fairly common to see the carbines at shows but where the hell did all the standard rifles get exported to? You typically 2-3 carbines per every long rifle Carcano. In my experience...

Here, but many long rifle Carcanos have been lost to Bubba.

[TRICKSTER]

I've wondered that myself. I mean take the Carcanos for instance. Its fairly common to see the carbines at shows but where the hell did all the standard rifles get exported to? You typically 2-3 carbines per every long rifle Carcano. In my experience...

Many of the standard rifles were converted to carbines for WWII.

[morrcarr67]

French rifles: "Never fired, only dropped once."

That's a good one.

[Lead Waster]

Intresting that China had weapons from both sides and had copied some also. So even 60+ years ago they were making copys of products.

Well, the Chinese invented (or would that be discovered?) gun powder and basically invented firearms in the crudest form so, you know whatever!

[Clipity]

Is there something in particular you're looking for?

[Lead Waster]

French rifles: "Never fired, only dropped once."

Ugh, this is so unfair to the French service men. Their government surrendered, the French army was basically defeated. I mean, it wasn't that the men just said "A screw it, we give up", it was more like "Holy Fark, these guys are handing us our *sses!". The German Army that marched into France was not the same army that had been hammered for 6 years when D-Day started.

In fact a lot of field commanders could not believe that their stupid government would just give up so easily. It was not the soldiers idea to surrender.


Also, who are the "Lesser Countries?" ... Lesser?

[a1c]

French rifles: "Never fired, only dropped once."

Gee, I never heard that one before.

I collect MAS 36s. Another French-born Calgunner here is a Berthier expert. Both rifles were the ones issued to French troops during WW2. My grandfather was carrying a Hotchkiss machine gun (not sure if it was a 1914 or 1922). The thing kept jamming every time he fired it, and he wanted to leave it behind as it was a ***** to carry, but his corporal kept going "You don't abandon French army property!" (to be fair, the Hotchkiss were good machine guns, but he probably was issued a lemon).

That gives you an insight as to how dysfunctional and incompetent the French military leadership was at the time. It had the most high end fortified line ever built at the time, but most of its troops were carrying WW1 rifles (some of which were refurbished from late 19th century models).

Contrary to popular American belief, the French were actually very much impatient to kick some German ***. They had been convinced by their leaders that the Maginot line would hold Hitler out. Too bad they didn't build it all the way to the Channel - they couldn't imagine Hitler would invade neutral Belgium (neither did the Belgians).

The French defeat and its surrender to Hitler was the product of a corrupt class of politicians which many of them then proceeded to serve German interests. May I add that most countries Hitler invaded went the same way.

(The French surrender monkey jokes are embarrassing. Anybody who knows some high school level world history or is at least a bit well-read knows better than emulate a Simpsons character. They don't really affect me because I know my history, but they don't reflect very well on the gun-owning community. It just fits with the stereotype of ignorant and xenophobic rednecks that the antis like to portray.)

CAI imported most of the MAS 36s you can find in the US today. Many of them were rearsenaled in the 70s and 80s.

[DannyInSoCal]

French rifles: "Never fired, only dropped once."

Hahahahahahahahah

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Guns ended up getting shipped all over the world. Many, many of them came here. I normally see more Carcano rifles, but I think that is a matter of where you look. Many of the Carcanos were sold to Egypt after WWII. The French (and please don't ever let them know that they were only a minor player in WWII, they will cry in their escargots) sent many of their guns to the Middle East, their colonies in Africa, and their colonies in the far East. The Dutch sent many of their older guns to their holdings in Asia. So did many of the other European countries that had colonies post WWII. As they got newer guns, they sent their old stuff off to their back waters. Uncle Sam was giving away Garands, M1 Carbines, grease guns, and just about anything else that they decided we had too much of, or could be used to oppose Communists around the world. Along with train loads of free ammunition. Why would any of them want to hold on to their old bolt actions with more expensive ammo? Those countries that were on the losing side ended up with most of their small arms dumped into various oceans. And don't forget that there were a lot of guns that were lost as a direct result of the war. A HUGE percentage of the Dutch Mannlichers were lost in transit. They had been converted to .303 British, and were being shipped back to Indonesia when the cargo ship they were on was torpedoed. Tons (literally) of No. 4 Mk1* Lee-Enfields suffered the same fate crossing the Atlantic. So while there were large numbers of many of these guns made, many were also lost or destroyed before they ever had a chance to make it on the surplus market.

-Mb

p.s. Where are you getting the 1 million number for Mondragons? They only ever made a few thousand of them. Maybe tens of thousands. That article in Wikipedia is WAY off. Mexico did not start making them in huge numbers in the 1930s. They were still using (and buying) new mausers will into the 1950s.

[Lead Waster]

^^ Agreed. And it should be pointed out that France, along with Britain were basically the first ones to DECLARE WAR on Germany after the Polish invasion. Cowards tend not to declare war. But again, the soldiers got screwed over by the politicians.... which is a familiar theme everywhere.