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Remington M1903A3 rifle at GunBroker-No Return Privilage ?!

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  • Electric Factory
    Senior Member
    • May 2006
    • 1855

    Remington M1903A3 rifle at GunBroker-No Return Privilage ?!

    I've been looking for a US M1903A3 .30-06 for quite some time, with various rifles either not being in my price range or not quite what I was looking for.
    Several days ago I found what looked like a great rifle with a fair price at Gunbroker. The listing had no bids which was strange considering the reasonable price for such a nice gun with a mint bore. The guys description was long and thorough, but at the end he mentioned not " providing for an inspection period nor return privilage". His description included many details about the rifle, pictures and even references [ I actually called both of his references, one didn't know him , the other spoke warmly of the guy and said he was reputable. ]. All in all the whole package looked great, but no amount of cajoling or explaining my position would budge this guy on the inspection/ return thing. As he explained it he had problems with some unscrupulous individuals 'upgrading' their rifles by swapping parts and then returning the rifle for refund . I admit I'd never heard of that one but oh well.... I mentioned to him that with an '03 Springfield it wouldn't be difficult to affirm whether or not the rifle was returned in its original state after examination, and that no refund should be issued until inspection was concluded. That is IF the gun didn't match up in person.
    The guy would not budge. It became clear that if I wanted to see this gun I'd have to gamble on this guys' honesty. All my alarm bells were ringing, yet the guy seemed honest and straight forward. Then he sent another email with a picture of that days newspaper [for the date] and the rifle in the same picture to confirm that he indeed had the gun.
    To make a long story even longer I swallowed hard and sent the guy payment in full [ using his Buy It Now, which ws STILL low ], knowing if it was a dud I had no recourse, at least by his listing terms.
    Well I got the rifle today, pictures are below. In short it exceeded my expectations, being in better condition than his pictures showed and his text description led me to believe . He shipped it exactly as he said he would, and the condition of the gun is excellent, about 97% .
    Is there an object lesson here, or did I just get lucky ? For those who are naturally suspicious [ like I am] I'm happy to report I found not only a great '03A3 but at least one honest man.

    Enjoy the pics, range report to follow once I get a chance to shoot .




    Last edited by Electric Factory; 10-19-2007, 10:54 PM.
  • #2
    anothergunnut
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2006
    • 1819

    I sold a gun to a guy who completely disassembled it and then returned it. In the future, as a minimum, I will have a no disassembling policy. I haven't yet decided if I will have a no return policy because it limits the pool of potential bidders and reduces the price accordingly.
    Check back later for a witty comment.

    Comment

    • #3
      NRAhighpowershooter
      Super Moderator
      CGN Contributor - Lifetime
      • Jun 2003
      • 6485

      Also, when a seller has this type of policy.. he may have something to hide... especially in 1903'a and A3's..You have to be carefull that the rifle wasn't a restored drill rifle.. they are bad juju....I always pass up on sellers that have a no return policy.....
      'Just Don't Point, Squint, and Laugh! '

      Distinguished Rifleman Badge #2220

      Comment

      • #4
        Electric Factory
        Senior Member
        • May 2006
        • 1855

        Originally posted by NRAhighpowershooter
        Also, when a seller has this type of policy.. he may have something to hide... especially in 1903'a and A3's..You have to be carefull that the rifle wasn't a restored drill rifle.. ..
        How do you recognize a restored drill rifle ? And what's bad about them ?
        I admit the 'no return policy' doesn't create a lot of good faith up front... On the other hand, I can't imagine what kind of *****#@!% is 'buying' rifles only to steal their parts.
        Last edited by Electric Factory; 10-18-2007, 7:46 PM.

        Comment

        • #5
          NeoWeird
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2005
          • 3342

          First thing you want to do is check for the US Ordnance marks on the barrel. These will be on the TOP of the barrel between the wood and the front sight post. It will be the crossed cannons with a letter date in the form of "MM-YY". By the overall even finish in the metal, except the bolt body (which has to be replaced on drill rifles), and the fact that the wood has dings, but no wear to indicate storage, and the soft inspectors and ordnance markings, I am going to assume it's a refinished rifle. Maybe not a drill rifle, but possibly a sporterized hunting rifle that someone restored to "like new".

          It's still a great rifle. Might we ask what you paid for it? You can look at it one of two ways:

          1. You got a really nice 1903A3 that while not 100% original is still a great rifle and a great addition to any collection (most 1903s and 1903A3s WON'T be original as many were rearsenaled at some point in time anyways).

          2. You got a SUPER deal on a great rifle.

          Just to be safe, take the wood off the stock and inspect the barrel. Drill rifles were either torch cut through to the bore or drilled through to the bore and a piece of rod welded into the chamber. Even if the barrel is original you might want to double check that they didn't just remove the plug, or worse, weld over it and try to hide it. Especially with the "no inspection" non-sense - I'd bet he had a "have a gunsmith inspect before firing" statement as well. Firing one of these barrels can be DEADLY, so do yourself the favor and remove the 5 screws and check the barrel before shooting it. You'll want to look on the top and bottom anywhere from 1-3" in front of the receiver for either horizontal lines or circles. If the holes are open it's a drill rifle, if you see the marks but they are smooth then they may be re-welded. Not sure why someone would do this and endanger someone, but it makes sense with the great price, refinished rifle, no return policy, etc.
          quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
          a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.

          Comment

          • #6
            dfletcher
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Dec 2006
            • 14787

            I'd take it to the range before concluding a good deal was had - but it definitely is a very nice looking rifle and should live up to expectations I'd presume.

            I think the guy's willingness to talk to you up front and send more photos is a good sign. Sending money to someone you've never met is a gamble and given the amounts we usually deal with it's not like anyone's going to fly cross country and sue the other fellow.

            I think we all have our little warning signs - mine's the "I can't be bothered to answer your questions" before the sale and the retaliatory feedback. You know the type, instead of being factual they do the "And he's a thief rat SOB who steals from children & cripples" .........
            GOA Member & SAF Life Member

            Comment

            • #7
              Electric Factory
              Senior Member
              • May 2006
              • 1855

              I just stripped the rifle into pieces, including removing/ inspecting the barrel. Barrel is original and so are the rest of component parts, thank goodness. No 'plugs' nor weldings nor anything else that is out of place. Dates, markings where they're supposed to be.
              Now it's off to the range...
              Prior to the sale the guy sent pictures of every part and view I asked him to. I also forgot to add that I forwarded at least 15 email with questions all of them replied. What probably convinced me to go forward is one of the dealer/ collector guys he had me contact as a reference. I talked colletor guns with him for a while, checked out his website of other collector rifles and got a good feeling about both guys after that.
              REALLY looking forward to shooting it.
              Last edited by Electric Factory; 10-18-2007, 9:54 PM.

              Comment

              • #8
                NeoWeird
                Veteran Member
                • Dec 2005
                • 3342

                Care to let us know the price or the seller? I know I'd be interested in his Gunbroker account to check in on time to time since he seems to be "in the business". If you're not comfortable posting it, send me a PM.
                quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
                a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Dr. Peter Venkman
                  Veteran Member
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 4899

                  You got lucky. You could have been easily hosed on that deal, like what happened to a friend of mine. The seller refused the package that my buddy shipped back after he opened up the action of what he bought and brown sludged poured out. The only reason the guy was not taken to court was because the amount my friend would have gotten back would be less than if he were to work.
                  sigpic
                  "America is not at war. The Marine Corps is at war; America is at the mall."
                  Originally posted by berto
                  You're right. There's no possible way that CGN members marching alongside the Pink Pistols in the SF Pride Parade can do anything to dispel the stereotype that gun owners are conservative bigots clinging to their guns and bibles. Not a single person in the crowd is rational or reachable because the parade's for gay folks and it's in SF.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Sampachi
                    Senior Member
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 812

                    Looks like a great rifle! I've noticed that some buyers & sellers can be "excentric" to say the least. Overall, I've had better experience selling and buying from the firearms community than eBay in general.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Electric Factory
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2006
                      • 1855

                      Originally posted by Dr. Peter Venkman
                      You got lucky. You could have been easily hosed on that deal, like what happened to a friend of mine. The seller refused the package that my buddy shipped back after he opened up the action of what he bought and brown sludged poured out. The only reason the guy was not taken to court was because the amount my friend would have gotten back would be less than if he were to work.
                      Maybe your're right, fortunately for me 'lucky' is what I was. I took the rifle to the range today after taking it apart last night to insure all was correct internaly. Had all of my reference books out and really disassembled it . Today at the range I held my breath and chambered the first round- SMACK went the 300yd Angeles Range steel plate !
                      15 shots- and subsequent SMACKS of steel put a smile on my face at last. I have to say after reading some of your replys I was a tad nervous. Knowing that I got a decent deal on a fabulous rifle inside and out has made my day.
                      So I put the question to all of you- was the seller right to deny a inspection period due to being paranoid of someone pilfering the rifle for parts ? Would you have walked away based on this sellers policy ?
                      Last edited by Electric Factory; 10-19-2007, 10:20 PM.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        NeoWeird
                        Veteran Member
                        • Dec 2005
                        • 3342

                        Nope. He was wrong. At best he could request a 'deposit' or release funds AFTER receiving the rifle. Having a no-exceptions can't return policy, especially on something like a firearm is just not right.

                        I'd still be careful. While looking for some info on a 1903 today I found another forum who had a member buy a rifle off gunbroker. He got the rifle and it had the ORIGINAL drill barrel but had the holes WELDED over AGAIN and reparkerized. Scary stuff....
                        quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est. - Lucius Annaeus
                        a sword never kills anybody; it's a tool in the killer's hand.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          RudyN
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2007
                          • 2282

                          I guess I was lucky as I bought my Remington 1903A3 from CMP and it is in Great shape. Has the Ordnance stamps on the wood and the barrel looks amlost original. Everything else matches up.
                          Rudy N
                          NRA BENEFACTOR MEMBER
                          CRPA MEMBER

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Boomer1961
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2005
                            • 768

                            Since you are bragging....

                            ....and very proud with your snatch......

                            .............and gave the wife extra pleasure last night because you could and wanted too......


                            .......................and have an extra swagger about you today.......

                            Can I ask?


                            WHAT WAS THE PRICE?

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Electric Factory
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2006
                              • 1855

                              Originally posted by Boomer1961
                              Since you are bragging....

                              .............and gave the wife extra pleasure last night because you could and wanted too......


                              Er........ uh, I mean ... uhm, that is I.... er, uhm..... hmmm........huh ?


                              Can I ask?

                              650.00

                              Comment

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