Electronic Bound Book?

[nmCollector]

Electronic ATF Compliance

Because most of us have no desire to keep printouts. Plus your suggestion would require printing out the entries every time you made a change. If you didn't, you would not be in compliance until you did.
Think of the trees, Clay!

I cut trees down and burn them for heat in the winter. I prefer Juniper but Pinion will do. I like Oak the best when I can get it. Of course I get the proper permits from the proper officials before harvesting our public resources for my own use.



As you and many others know I too write software for gun collectors. I intentionally chose not to track people's mistakes in my software because it is too "Big Brother" for me. I honestly thought that if people knew I was logging their every change in the software so they could be audited by a government agent they would not want the software anyway.

[Wolfrage]

I intentionally chose not to track people's mistakes in my software because it is too "Big Brother" for me.

I simply don't get that mindset. With over 10,000 users I haven't found one that has even brought it up. I don't think people particularly care -- if they are a C&R or FFL then their records are required to be reviewed when requested and I don't see how having mistakes logged would matter.

If they aren't a C&R or FFL then it wouldn't matter anyway since the gov't couldn't review it anyway without a warrant -- and again it still wouldn't make a difference if mistakes are logged.

*shrug* If someone is that concerned then they probably aren't going to use any program anyway.

[nmCollector]

With that many users you can't be wrong

I simply don't get that mindset. With over 10,000 users I haven't found one that has even brought it up.

Assuming they have all read the fine print and are all aware of the behind-the-scenes logging BATFE requires to make software BATFE compliant as an Electronic Bound Book.

Clay
NM Collector Software - Any Collection Any Operating System

[bandook]

To get back to the topic at hand...
Are you storing the data in an encrypted proprietary database? I.e. what's to stop someone from fiddling with the entries directly.

[paul0660]

What's a 03? 3 years? Do your best, throw the stuff away at expiration, and start over in a month.

If you get inspected, remember that there is an entirely different way, in the State of California, for buy and selling old rifles that does not need a 03. You are not the only source of info regarding the guns in your possession, but are about 99% of it.

[nmCollector]

Data Security

To get back to the topic at hand...
Are you storing the data in an encrypted proprietary database? I.e. what's to stop someone from fiddling with the entries directly.

I'm not sure who you are asking. NM Collector Software uses a derby database which can be accessed by anybody with the proper knowledge. I did that on purpose so people can write reports against it if they wish.

When security is of concern, it can be stored on an encrypted drive and / or locked in a safe like I do.

Thanks,

Clay
nmCollector.net LLC

[Wolfrage]

To get back to the topic at hand...
Are you storing the data in an encrypted proprietary database? I.e. what's to stop someone from fiddling with the entries directly.

In MyGunDB it uses SQLite but all databases are encrypted. And the version of SQLite it uses is made for AIR only, so they'd need an AIR program manipulating it, plus they'd need to use the exact same encryption system.

[Wolfrage]

Assuming they have all read the fine print and are all aware of the behind-the-scenes logging BATFE requires to make software BATFE compliant as an Electronic Bound Book.

My suggestion would be to have it disabled by default and they need to enable it when they make a new database, if it was included. Can't think of a better way offhand to handle it, but maybe a user has ideas for a different way.

[nmCollector]

My suggestion would be to have it disabled by default and they need to enable it when they make a new database, if it was included. Can't think of a better way offhand to handle it, but maybe a user has ideas for a different way.

Now you're talking. That is a great solution.

Clay

[nmCollector]

I'm not sure who you are asking. NM Collector Software uses a derby database which can be accessed by anybody with the proper knowledge. I did that on purpose so people can write reports against it if they wish.

When security is of concern, it can be stored on an encrypted drive and / or locked in a safe like I do.

Thanks,

Clay
nmCollector.net LLC

Here is a link with detailed instructions for encrypting a USB Flash drive - just one of many options: http://www.ehow.com/how_2298754_usb-...truecrypt.html

Clay

[Wolfrage]

Here is a link with detailed instructions for encrypting a USB Flash drive - just one of many options: http://www.ehow.com/how_2298754_usb-...truecrypt.html

Clay

TrueCrypt is great for that -- just curious as I don't know much about it but can Derby handle encrypted databases?

[Wolfrage]

Now you're talking. That is a great solution.

Clay

Really though, the whole ATF requirement for the logging is so stupid, as you know. But at least people no longer need to get their permission individually to use a program, like it used to be. We just got to get the BATF to move to the next step and treat it exactly like a printed report.

[nmCollector]

Encrypted Derby Database

TrueCrypt is great for that -- just curious as I don't know much about it but can Derby handle encrypted databases?

Yes, Derby can handle encrypted databases (see http://db.apache.org/derby/docs/10.3...cure97760.html for more information).

However, I chose not to encrypt the NM Collector Software database for many reasons. The main reason being that people who want to encrypt it can by encrypting the drive that it resides on. Another reason is that I encrypted and locked down the NM Gun Collector Software database so tight nobody could get to it except through the interface. Unfortunately, although secure, this led to many complaints from people who wanted to access their data directly through whatever other tools they had at their disposal for whatever reasons they had.

Therefore, I left the NM Collector Software database open for access in whatever way the owner of the data feels is appropriate. Of course, as mentioned several times before, they can encrypt and lock it down by encrypting and locking down the drive that they keep it on. One way to do it is clearly explained here: http://www.ehow.com/how_2298754_usb-...truecrypt.html. That approach applies to any drive not just USB flash drives.

Thanks,

Clay

[Wolfrage]

Huh, that makes sense. My users requested encrypted databases specifically so it can be stored anyplace they want without worry about third-party encryption and all. That makes it very useful for the DropBox integration, as an example, so they can store their DB in their DropBox folder and use it between different machines. Not sure how that could be done using TrueCrypt easily.

I like the idea of users being able to access their data however they want, but oddly enough I've never gotten that request - they generally just want a few specific reports and that's it. Then again, I guess there's a difference in usage between a firearm digital bound book like MyGunDB and a catch-all inventory system like NMC. Makes sense.

Interesting. Always neat to see a different perspective!

[nmCollector]

Some Clarifications

Huh, that makes sense. My users requested encrypted databases specifically so it can be stored anyplace they want without worry about third-party encryption and all. That makes it very useful for the DropBox integration, as an example, so they can store their DB in their DropBox folder and use it between different machines. Not sure how that could be done using TrueCrypt easily.

I like the idea of users being able to access their data however they want, but oddly enough I've never gotten that request - they generally just want a few specific reports and that's it. Then again, I guess there's a difference in usage between a firearm digital bound book like MyGunDB and a catch-all inventory system like NMC. Makes sense.

Interesting. Always neat to see a different perspective!

There are many ways to encrypt a single file or folder. Here are just a few examples.

http://dottech.org/freeware-reviews/15996/

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/encrypt_to_encrypt_file.mspx?mfr=true

http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/linux-...-password.html

Regarding where the requests I am addressing came from, NM Gun Collector Software (which I have now made available completely free of charge) is for gun collections only. It was used as an alternate record (what you call an electronic bound book - what ATF called an alternate record back then) by many FFL holders under the old rules where ATF had to specifically approve it for that use. This is the software that many people complained about the data being locked down too tight. So, the complaints and requests for change came from the gun collecting community at that time.

NM Collector Software is not a "catch all" software. It simply uses a more flexible template approach to collections so different templates can be used for different purposes. One of the other requests I had for NM Gun Collector was the ability to handle other types of collections as well as guns which is what NM Collector Software provides without sacrificing the needs of the gun collector.

Sometimes as a software developer you have to make tough decisions when there are conflicts between different sets of users. Often, the best approach is the simplest approach that relies on other systems to provide the flexibility some customers need without locking down others. You are going down the path I started down years ago. I am confident that most of the features (other than the ATF auditing trail) MyGunDB has were already contained in NM Gun Collector years ago. It would be interesting for some of your customers to take a look at NM Gun Collector (which I now offer completely free of charge) and see if this is not true. The biggest difference between NM Gun Collector and MyGunDB is that I am no longer making changes to NM Gun Collector. I am still supporting it but no longer updating it. Instead, my efforts are now focused on NM Collector Software.

Thanks to the forum administrators and moderators for allowing us this band width and opportunity to discuss issues and make clarifications about the whole issue of Electronic Bound Books and gun collecting software.

Sincerely,

Clay