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After dealing with questions like:
"Is a FFL03 C&R license worth it in Cali?" http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=57574
"How long did it take to get your FFL03 C&R" http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=47389
I then found myself asking the questions of - Where do I send my FFL 03 C&R? Who do I send it to first? Which vendors give discounts to FFL 03 C&R holders? Do I have to snail mail everyone or can I fax, email, etc?
It wasn't hard to find lists of people to send to, but the vendors change over time; as do the processes they accept; so I decided to simply document my own experiences, in an attempt to create a expectations guide that others can use.
If you have had experiences contrary to my own, please post to this thread, and I'll include them in this main post.
First, here is the method I used: I made many copies of original license - then put he unsigned original in my safe. The copies I signed in RED ink. I then scanned a signed copy, made into JPG. Then emailed w/attachment, or faxed, or periodically sat down and did the snail mail thing; personal phone calls are very hard for me to make from work, so it doesn't happen very often.
Here is my report so far:
Vendors providing discounts for FFL03 C&R holders:
Brownells - http://www.brownells.com - faxed w/email followup, online acct created and setup by afternoon of next day. Big huge catalog w/dealer pricing in my mailbox 2 weeks later. Have used them many times, great deals and great service.
*B&H Shooters - *No longer offer any discounts to FFL03 dealers - http://www.bhshooters.com
DPMS - http://www.dpmsinc.com/ - Contacted them via email, quick turnaround - asking me to fax my FFL03, emailed a response back, they quickly said it will take them a day or so, to update their system, then call back and request a dealer catalog. 5 weeks later - I finally called them, and they confirmed they did get my FFL03 and sent me a catalog last week? Ok, 3 weeks later I finally got my first catalog.
EMF Company - http://www.emf-company.com/ - offers discounts to any FFL03 holder per their declaration right here on CGN! Accolades here!
Grafs - http://www.grafs.com - faxed w/email followup - no response. After multiple phone calls, talking to 3 different people - finally got setup. - Once you receive a dealer account, there is a small section of C&R firearms on their site as well. NOTE: as shown here you may need to spend $2k per year to keep your dealer discount!
Midwayusa - http://www.midwayusa.com - faxed w/email followup, online acct modified with dealer page by morning next day. Have used them many times, great deals and great service.
Numrich - http://www.e-gunparts.com/ - Called hated their voicemail system, eventually got a live person, who was very nice to deal with. She told me to fax my FFL03, w/email contact info - they are supposed to respond by email. Received a very nice welcome letter via mail about a week later, with instructions on how to create a web account. Note: You can only create your online account using I.E. - mozilla, netscape, etc, all fail with a ASP error.
FFL Dealers, providing C&R firearms:
Aimsurplus (OH) - http://www.aimsurplus.com - faxed w/email followup, no response... I finally called them they dug around for a while, then finally told me - they must have thrown out my info, because I sent it by fax, and to try again by mail. Ok, finally sent them C&R by mail, and they were quite fast to respond to my contact info via email - easy process - as long as you use snail mail.
Allan's Armory (FL) - http://www.allans-armory.com - emailed w/scan per their website - no response - website says it's closed until - sometime; ok it's been a couple months, I noted some people are starting to talk about Allan's again, I emailed again, this time, got response, saying he did not receive my request, I resent my attachment via email, and am now finally setup.
Centerfire Systems, Inc. (KY) - http://www.centerfiresystems.com - emailed w/scan as they have no posted policy - no response. Called, they dug around, and found my info, nice enough to deal with via phone.
Century International (FL) - http://www.centuryarms.com - mailed per their website, called a couple weeks later, nice guys on the phone, setup my online account right away on the phone. Added me to email lists, and are sending me a catalog. Additional noteworthy items, $75+ order = fixed S&H charge of $12.95, $500+ order = free shipping. UPDATE: Century - Only ships AMMO to CA for FFL03 or FFL01 holders. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=72313
Classicarms (NC) - http://www.classicarms.us - faxed, called no answer and no voicemail, tried to email no address available, on and off I tried calling on Fridays (my 1 day of the week I can call - no answer during posted work hours) - now nearly 3 months later, I happened to call (not-on a Friday), and actually SPOKE to someone! WOW... They confirmed, they do NOT have voicemail, and they do NOT do email, and in general they do NOT work on Fridays during the summer - as it's too hot? Anyway, they did say they now are again working on Friday's till 1pm EST; and they have no plans to add voicemail or email. So if you want to reliably contact them, call Monday-Thursday, 9am-5pm EST. Oh, and yes - they did have my FFL I faxed to them on file from 3 months before; but I guess they don't contact people either. Seems like a rather odd way to do business, but I guess they get enough business to survive operating in this way. Additional experiences from others on the forum - here in September 2007 and also here in December 2008 and also here in December 2009 and also here in July 2012 and also here and here in November 2012.
Empire Arms (FL) - http://www.empirearms.com - tried fax, constant busy signals - sent email follow up w/scanned attachment of signed FFL. 2 hours later same day - I get a response, saying I'm all setup! wow! Owner apologized via email - that the Florida storms had his phones underwater, but greatly preferred the resolution and clarity of the scanned email instead. Seems like a good friendly owner, all firearms are graded individually, nearly all sales done through special email sales, any remaining items go to the website. Additional notes, many people here have reported the firearms received were exactly as stated, the owner is very good to work with, and even provides a "find your specific firearm for you" type service.
I.O. Inc - http://www.ioinc.us - mailed per their website, called and left a phone message about 3 weeks later - couldn't get anyone live to answer. (Also I assume that I.O. used to be InterOrdnance - as any reference to them is now gone.) Several days after my voicemail, they called back, confirming they received my license. I then manually created an account on their website; called back in; and they confirmed they will internally match up my FFL with the website account. *Family Friendly Warning; mailers and emails sometimes make me wonder if they are selling women's underwear instead of firearms.*
J&G (AZ) - http://www.jgsales.com - faxed w/email followup - 2 weeks of later - got a letter saying they wanted signed in non-black ink, I sent them a return letter, and didn't hear back. Additional phone call follow up - finally got my account setup.
Rguns - http://rguns.net/ - as mentioned here later in this thread.
Samco Global Arms (FL) - http://www.samcoglobal.com - emailed w/scan as they have no posted policy - responded saying they only accept mail. After about a month, I called them, they confirmed they received my FFL. Funny - you would think, that if a new customer takes the time to send in an FFL - which obviously means he's wanting to buy - they could at least send some type of response. Oh well. Additional experiences from others on the forum - here in December 2012.
Southern Ohio Gun (SOG) (OH) - http://www.southernohiogun.com - faxed w/email followup, online account setup by evening of next day. Good prices, intermittent turn around on email (either fast or 3 days later you get a bounced email saying their inbox is full). Minor annoyances; their website doesn't show shipping costs, so you won't know your final price till UPS delivers to your door. My first phone order, I ended up having to do additional paperwork; that wasn't required the first time I ordered on their website? weird, plus the paperwork they faxed to me specifically said they couldn't ship product to me, until they received a signed FFL by mail, I signed the document faxed it back, and then also sent a response by mail w/a signed FFL, 4 days later my order arrived - obviously they did not wait to get my snail mail response. They send a monthly newsletter catalog, 90%+ of the time, the items in the catalog, they don't have in stock. Low stock items they get, they put on the phone system, not their website; and you will only know the products exist, if you happen to call in - no email notifications or anything.
Tombstone Arms (MO) - [[ Oct1, 2008 - Owner notified will only being doing local business, website, phone, fax - being removed from this list ]].
C&R Firearm vendors I've never had a response from:
Ocala Armory (FL) - http://ocala-armory.com/ - asked if existing documents were transfered from Aztec or if new FFL03 copies had to be sent - via email - no response for 5 weeks now. (was ???? Aztec International (FL) - http://www.aztecguns.com - never received response from mail, or phone calls.)
Pete's Firearms (NY) - http://www.petesdiscountfirearms.com - emailed question about CA legal Yugos on the site, being C&R or not - no response.
Other lists maintained on other sites:
-M3
"Is a FFL03 C&R license worth it in Cali?" http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=57574
"How long did it take to get your FFL03 C&R" http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=47389
I then found myself asking the questions of - Where do I send my FFL 03 C&R? Who do I send it to first? Which vendors give discounts to FFL 03 C&R holders? Do I have to snail mail everyone or can I fax, email, etc?
It wasn't hard to find lists of people to send to, but the vendors change over time; as do the processes they accept; so I decided to simply document my own experiences, in an attempt to create a expectations guide that others can use.
If you have had experiences contrary to my own, please post to this thread, and I'll include them in this main post.
First, here is the method I used: I made many copies of original license - then put he unsigned original in my safe. The copies I signed in RED ink. I then scanned a signed copy, made into JPG. Then emailed w/attachment, or faxed, or periodically sat down and did the snail mail thing; personal phone calls are very hard for me to make from work, so it doesn't happen very often.
Here is my report so far:
Vendors providing discounts for FFL03 C&R holders:
Brownells - http://www.brownells.com - faxed w/email followup, online acct created and setup by afternoon of next day. Big huge catalog w/dealer pricing in my mailbox 2 weeks later. Have used them many times, great deals and great service.
*B&H Shooters - *No longer offer any discounts to FFL03 dealers - http://www.bhshooters.com
DPMS - http://www.dpmsinc.com/ - Contacted them via email, quick turnaround - asking me to fax my FFL03, emailed a response back, they quickly said it will take them a day or so, to update their system, then call back and request a dealer catalog. 5 weeks later - I finally called them, and they confirmed they did get my FFL03 and sent me a catalog last week? Ok, 3 weeks later I finally got my first catalog.
EMF Company - http://www.emf-company.com/ - offers discounts to any FFL03 holder per their declaration right here on CGN! Accolades here!
Grafs - http://www.grafs.com - faxed w/email followup - no response. After multiple phone calls, talking to 3 different people - finally got setup. - Once you receive a dealer account, there is a small section of C&R firearms on their site as well. NOTE: as shown here you may need to spend $2k per year to keep your dealer discount!
Midwayusa - http://www.midwayusa.com - faxed w/email followup, online acct modified with dealer page by morning next day. Have used them many times, great deals and great service.
Numrich - http://www.e-gunparts.com/ - Called hated their voicemail system, eventually got a live person, who was very nice to deal with. She told me to fax my FFL03, w/email contact info - they are supposed to respond by email. Received a very nice welcome letter via mail about a week later, with instructions on how to create a web account. Note: You can only create your online account using I.E. - mozilla, netscape, etc, all fail with a ASP error.
FFL Dealers, providing C&R firearms:
Aimsurplus (OH) - http://www.aimsurplus.com - faxed w/email followup, no response... I finally called them they dug around for a while, then finally told me - they must have thrown out my info, because I sent it by fax, and to try again by mail. Ok, finally sent them C&R by mail, and they were quite fast to respond to my contact info via email - easy process - as long as you use snail mail.
Allan's Armory (FL) - http://www.allans-armory.com - emailed w/scan per their website - no response - website says it's closed until - sometime; ok it's been a couple months, I noted some people are starting to talk about Allan's again, I emailed again, this time, got response, saying he did not receive my request, I resent my attachment via email, and am now finally setup.
Centerfire Systems, Inc. (KY) - http://www.centerfiresystems.com - emailed w/scan as they have no posted policy - no response. Called, they dug around, and found my info, nice enough to deal with via phone.
Century International (FL) - http://www.centuryarms.com - mailed per their website, called a couple weeks later, nice guys on the phone, setup my online account right away on the phone. Added me to email lists, and are sending me a catalog. Additional noteworthy items, $75+ order = fixed S&H charge of $12.95, $500+ order = free shipping. UPDATE: Century - Only ships AMMO to CA for FFL03 or FFL01 holders. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ad.php?t=72313
Classicarms (NC) - http://www.classicarms.us - faxed, called no answer and no voicemail, tried to email no address available, on and off I tried calling on Fridays (my 1 day of the week I can call - no answer during posted work hours) - now nearly 3 months later, I happened to call (not-on a Friday), and actually SPOKE to someone! WOW... They confirmed, they do NOT have voicemail, and they do NOT do email, and in general they do NOT work on Fridays during the summer - as it's too hot? Anyway, they did say they now are again working on Friday's till 1pm EST; and they have no plans to add voicemail or email. So if you want to reliably contact them, call Monday-Thursday, 9am-5pm EST. Oh, and yes - they did have my FFL I faxed to them on file from 3 months before; but I guess they don't contact people either. Seems like a rather odd way to do business, but I guess they get enough business to survive operating in this way. Additional experiences from others on the forum - here in September 2007 and also here in December 2008 and also here in December 2009 and also here in July 2012 and also here and here in November 2012.
Empire Arms (FL) - http://www.empirearms.com - tried fax, constant busy signals - sent email follow up w/scanned attachment of signed FFL. 2 hours later same day - I get a response, saying I'm all setup! wow! Owner apologized via email - that the Florida storms had his phones underwater, but greatly preferred the resolution and clarity of the scanned email instead. Seems like a good friendly owner, all firearms are graded individually, nearly all sales done through special email sales, any remaining items go to the website. Additional notes, many people here have reported the firearms received were exactly as stated, the owner is very good to work with, and even provides a "find your specific firearm for you" type service.
I.O. Inc - http://www.ioinc.us - mailed per their website, called and left a phone message about 3 weeks later - couldn't get anyone live to answer. (Also I assume that I.O. used to be InterOrdnance - as any reference to them is now gone.) Several days after my voicemail, they called back, confirming they received my license. I then manually created an account on their website; called back in; and they confirmed they will internally match up my FFL with the website account. *Family Friendly Warning; mailers and emails sometimes make me wonder if they are selling women's underwear instead of firearms.*
J&G (AZ) - http://www.jgsales.com - faxed w/email followup - 2 weeks of later - got a letter saying they wanted signed in non-black ink, I sent them a return letter, and didn't hear back. Additional phone call follow up - finally got my account setup.
Rguns - http://rguns.net/ - as mentioned here later in this thread.
Tombstone Arms (MO) - [[ Oct1, 2008 - Owner notified will only being doing local business, website, phone, fax - being removed from this list ]].
C&R Firearm vendors I've never had a response from:
Ocala Armory (FL) - http://ocala-armory.com/ - asked if existing documents were transfered from Aztec or if new FFL03 copies had to be sent - via email - no response for 5 weeks now. (was ???? Aztec International (FL) - http://www.aztecguns.com - never received response from mail, or phone calls.)
Pete's Firearms (NY) - http://www.petesdiscountfirearms.com - emailed question about CA legal Yugos on the site, being C&R or not - no response.
Other lists maintained on other sites:
-M3
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