Mauser C96 Legality

[Vipersx911]

Hey guys, I have a question of legality on the Mauser C96 broomhandle pistol. I do not hold a C&R license, and am not even sure if they are legal in the state. I of course have it out of state, and it was left as a family relic. As far as I am aware it is still in firing condition and was manufactured in 1909. My question regards to the fact I have no idea what the legalities of having one in CA are. It has the case that doubles as a shoulder stock. My understanding of law is that this becomes an SBR, however I have also heard that due to the age these weapons are exempt from this law. Anyone able to cite penal code on this one or let me know specificity of the laws regarding this relic firearm. Thanks in advance guys.

[ke6guj]

yes, it is an SBR, but it is exempt from CA's SBR law because it is C&R.

12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(7) Any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the items pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto. Any person prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition who obtains title to these items by bequest or intestate succession may retain title for not more than one year, but actual possession of these items at any time is punishable pursuant to Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code. Within the year, the person shall transfer title to the firearms or ammunition by sale, gift, or other disposition. Any person who violates this paragraph is in violation of subdivision (a).

federal law has an exemption for those pistols as being exempt from the NFA.

SECTION III: Weapons Removed From The NFA
As Collector's Items And Classified As Curios Or Relics Under The GCA
The Bureau has determined that by reason of the date of their manufacture, value, design and other
characteristics, the following firearms are primarily collector's items and are not likely to be used as weapons
and, therefore, are excluded from the provisions of the National Firearms Act.
Further, the Bureau has determined that such firearms are also curios or relics as defined in 27 CFR 478.11.
Thus, licensed collectors may acquire, hold, or dispose to them as curios or relics subject to the provisions of
18 U.S.C. Chapter 44 and 27 CFR Part 478. They are still "firearms" as defined in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44.

Mauser, Model 1896 semiautomatic pistol accompanied by original German mfd. detachable wooden
holster/shoulder stocks, all semiautomatic German mfd. variations produced prior to 1940,
any caliber.

so, it is a legal SBR. However, there is no C&R exemption to the rifle AW regs, so once you attach the stock, you have created an unregistered rifle AW becuase it is a semi-automatic centerfire rifle that is <30" OAL.

[Vipersx911]

So essentially it is legal to bring in, just dont attach the stock to the weapon in the state of CA... I travel out to AZ a lot and if it is NFA exempt than it wont be a problem out there. I just cant wait to bring it in now knowing I can.

In regards to the AW laws, how can there be an exemption for the original SBR/SBS classification in the state, however witht he AW laws it is still illegal. This is interesting to me as it would seem that they are saying two conflicting points on regards to the same subject.

[DisgruntledReaper]

So essentially it is legal to bring in, just dont attach the stock to the weapon in the state of CA... I travel out to AZ a lot and if it is NFA exempt than it wont be a problem out there. I just cant wait to bring it in now knowing I can.

In regards to the AW laws, how can there be an exemption for the original SBR/SBS classification in the state, however witht he AW laws it is still illegal. This is interesting to me as it would seem that they are saying two conflicting points on regards to the same subject.

The reason is that the a holes in Kommiefornia are idiots and make no distinction between a firearm/pistol that is a collector item and their idea of what a AW is...they put these generic characteristics in a law or code without proper rational thinking....

I am going to call the DO in J up in Ball-Sacramento and ask them about this...and make sure I have had a couple stiff shots and excedrin...before I do... Dealing with morons irritates me...

[beetle]

have always wondered about this as well. Just for fun I tried following the Handgun AW flowchart. Here's how I followed it:

Questions 1-6: No
Question 7: Does the pistol have a stock? YES. "Illegal unless properly registered and/or permitted as an SBS/SBR. If so, continue".

Now that's the interesting part. From the posting above, C96 with shoulder stock is permitted as a "legal SBR" in CA, so continue with the flowchart (?)

Question 8-10: NO
Question 11: Semiautomatic Yes
Question 12-14: NO
Question 15: Does the firearm have a detachable Magazine? NO
Question 16b: Does the firearm have a fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds? NO

Result: LEGAL

So based on my following of the handgun flowchart, it appears the C96 is NOT an AW? I think there are two key points: 1) The C&R status takes down the shoulder stock issue, and 2) The C96 has a fixed internal 10 round magazine.

My specimen (stock will stay unattached for now )

[DisgruntledReaper]

Beetle- NICE Rig! can you tell me more about yours??

Looks to be original finish(or they removed the 'fireblue' trigger and sight parts), appears pretty early production-Pre 'NS' safety, 30+ groove grips....

Nice....Mine so far seem to be 'Mutts', nice ones, but mutts-

So far- all matching Bolo

9mm rebore/mismatch-29,xxx frame/upper/barrel,lockwork 166,xxx , want to try it out in 9mm but lockwork/overall fit a bit loose...need to find a lower numbered lockwork assy and see it fit is better... this was my first one....learned a bunch...

BH serial number 1036-made 1897, will be doing a little work on this....it has lockwork from serial number 4734-if I remember right- who knows what happened during its life-but still neat.

Large Ring Hammer-coming,not here yet.....

The 'Dirty Wilhelm' one pictured in my post.......waiting for it to show down here at ffl to start the 'jail time...

[morrcarr67]

My specimen (stock will stay unattached for now )

Very nice. I've always wanted one jus it always seems that something else comes up.

[Vipersx911]

Very nice. I've always wanted one jus it always seems that something else comes up.

Well glad to hear that if you follow the AW chart that it comes up legal. I have been wondering and delayed bringing the Mauser into CA for over a year now not wanting to deal with DOJ...

Who wants to deal with DOJ often times if you call them and there is even the slightest question on the subject they will simply say assault weapon and that is it. The ban on characteristics needs to go... Anyone know if theya re working on a case cause this specific issue is one that raises a question. It is exempt from the SBR list, yet witht he ban based on Characteristics it is a SBR................

[DisgruntledReaper]

You can legally use the stock as a holster since it was made that way to be used, I would not worry about it. Besides if you do want to use the stock AS a stock, you need to pull it out of the leather carrier-if your gramp's had one with it.

I am going to try to pin someone down on this and get it in writing as such ...but I will need my excedrin/coffee/couple stiffy's before I call otherwise i will want to strangle them before I reach them...hate the auto phone menu garbage....

[Vipersx911]

You can legally use the stock as a holster since it was made that way to be used, I would not worry about it. Besides if you do want to use the stock AS a stock, you need to pull it out of the leather carrier-if your gramp's had one with it.

I am going to try to pin someone down on this and get it in writing as such ...but I will need my excedrin/coffee/couple stiffy's before I call otherwise i will want to strangle them before I reach them...hate the auto phone menu garbage....

If you are going to call DOJ thanks for taking one for the team, I dont want to call them either... I dont have a full day to dedicate just for the automated menu.

[DisgruntledReaper]

Sure, I like to dodge incoming once in a while....besides once you pin them on something and have it in writing...well it can be used if something happens...they are the 'ahem,cough' ''experts'....bwahahahhahaah!

[ke6guj]

have always wondered about this as well. Just for fun I tried following the Handgun AW flowchart. Here's how I followed it:

that covers the "handgun" portion of that combo. You also need to run it through the Rifle AW chart once it has a shoulder stock attached. You get an ILLEGAL answer to #1 (that is incorrect in this case, that chart doesn't deal with exemptions to the SBR regs), so you can basically skip that question and go on. YOu will be fine all the way down to #6, the "less than 30" question. here you will answer YES, and get another ILLEGAL result. There is no C&R exemption for this.

[beetle]

that covers the "handgun" portion of that combo. You also need to run it through the Rifle AW chart once it has a shoulder stock attached. You get an ILLEGAL answer to #1 (that is incorrect in this case, that chart doesn't deal with exemptions to the SBR regs), so you can basically skip that question and go on. YOu will be fine all the way down to #6, the "less than 30" question. here you will answer YES, and get another ILLEGAL result. There is no C&R exemption for this.

I'm not an expert, but is this really the case? The C96 is a pistol, not a rifle. Therefore one should use the AW flowchart for Pistols, not Rifles. Also, in the Handgun flowchart, it states that a handgun is

"A handgun is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that has a barrel length of less than 16 inches...."

Thus with that definition the C96 clearly falls into the handgun category. Finally in the handgun flowchart itself, it specifically asks the question of "does the firearm have a stock" and states that it's illegal as an SBR unless an exemption applies.

Certainly confusing. I'll defer to those more knowledgeable than me....

[darkest2000]

It's legal. quit poking the bear. if you ask the DOJ they'll tell you they're not allowed to give out legal opinions so they'd simply refer you to your district attorney.

[ke6guj]

I'm not an expert, but is this really the case? The C96 is a pistol, not a rifle. Therefore one should use the AW flowchart for Pistols, not Rifles. Also, in the Handgun flowchart, it states that a handgun is

"A handgun is any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that has a barrel length of less than 16 inches...."

CA law says that a firearm can be a handgun and an SBR at the same time.

12001(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun," "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.

and if it fits the defintion on an SBR, then it is a rifle.

Thus with that definition the C96 clearly falls into the handgun category. Finally in the handgun flowchart itself, it specifically asks the question of "does the firearm have a stock" and states that it's illegal as an SBR unless an exemption applies.

Certainly confusing. I'll defer to those more knowledgeable than me....

perhaps I should have had the handgun flowchart refer a YES answer to that question to the rifle flowchart, but I didn't think it was neccessary. I assumed that people would realize that a rifled-barreled firearm that had a shoulder stock was a rifle and that they needed to consult the rifle flowchart.