question about record keeping

[Mofo-Kang]

The book we have to keep for our C&R purchases/sales... will a simple 3-ring binder do? Or does it have to be something more substantial?

Also, if I understand it right, shipping a C&R pistol directly to a CA resident C&R FFL holder is against CA law, but it doesn't violate the federal C&R FFL terms, right? How is this all enforced, anyway?

[taloft]

Yes, a three ring binder will work fine. You can print pages from the surplus rifles website to use for free, http://www.surplusrifle.com/graphics/boundbookpage.pdf
and use them in your bound book or, you can purchase a firearms record book from Brownells.http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1...S_RECORD_BOOKS

Either one will work fine.

As to your second question, all bound books are subject to review by the ATF. They can ask to inspect your collection once a year. You have the option to do this at your home or, drag everything down to their office.

Anyone issued a FFL03 that transfers firearms across state lines must comply with the laws in both states. A collector in another state isn't likely to risk his license just to directly ship you a handgun. Besides, his bound book wouldn't show the licence number of a California FFL01 in the final disposition. Upon inspection, this would be a red flag to an ATF agent. The only way you could do this would be to go to the other state and purchase the handgun face to face. Even then you're required to submit a C&R report form to the State DOJ upon your return. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/curioapp.pdf

Basically, you get caught doing anything illegal across state lines and they will not only pull your license but, will toss you under the nearest federal pen for some hard time. If you survive that bit of fun, odds are you'll be barred from ever owning a firearm again.

[PsychGuy274]

The book we have to keep for our C&R purchases/sales... will a simple 3-ring binder do? Or does it have to be something more substantial?

That's what I do.

Also, if I understand it right, shipping a C&R pistol directly to a CA resident C&R FFL holder is against CA law, but it doesn't violate the federal C&R FFL terms, right?

True. In Kalifornia it needs to go to an FFL. If you are licensed and want a C&R handgun, just go to Arizona or Nevada and buy them there. Just make sure you fill out the C&R handgun report form and send it in to the DoJ (I believe) with $19 so it's registered.

How is this all enforced, anyway?

Who the hell knows.

[Flinch]

Bound Book Info

Thanks for the links on the book. Regarding previously owned C&R firearms, Should I keep the bills of sale with the book or just log the ones that are acquired after getting the 03?
Thanks, Flinch aka Dave

[gunn]

Thanks for the links on the book. Regarding previously owned C&R firearms, Should I keep the bills of sale with the book or just log the ones that are acquired after getting the 03?
Thanks, Flinch aka Dave

I logged them BOTH (previously acquired ones as well as ones acquired after I received my FFL03). My reasoning is that a) I don't care if the BATFE knows about these C&Rs and b) it can't hurt to be extra careful.

BTW, I also log the last dealer to take possession of the rifle... not necessarily the place I purchased the rifle. In the scenario where I had an CA FFL01 receive a gun for me, I put in my bound book the CAFFL # and not the original dealer I bought the gun from.

If the BATFE traces things, they will see AIMSURPLUS -> Rogers Relics -> Gunn

so I might as well put in my book that the gun was acquired from Roger's Relics (not AIMSURPLUS).

-g

[Flinch]

Thanks for the reply, Gunn. That makes sense, if there was a visit, all info would be readily available.
Flinch aka Dave

[Mofo-Kang]

Anyone issued a FFL03 that transfers firearms across state lines must comply with the laws in both states. A collector in another state isn't likely to risk his license just to directly ship you a handgun. Besides, his bound book wouldn't show the licence number of a California FFL01 in the final disposition. Upon inspection, this would be a red flag to an ATF agent. The only way you could do this would be to go to the other state and purchase the handgun face to face. Even then you're required to submit a C&R report form to the State DOJ upon your return. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/curioapp.pdf

Basically, you get caught doing anything illegal across state lines and they will not only pull your license but, will toss you under the nearest federal pen for some hard time. If you survive that bit of fun, odds are you'll be barred from ever owning a firearm again.

I'm certainly not advocating anyone doing anything illegal! I just feel like I dodged a bullet (heh)--when I got the C&R FFL, I didn't realize the delivery-to-your-door bit only applied to long guns. I'm glad I didn't go out and order a makarov or something--someone might have gone ahead and shipped it. Then we'd both be potentially in trouble.