SKS Question...

[paul0660]

the chinese sks is easy to tell the date by the serial number.

Only the factory 26 models. There are many others.

The problem with what pezhead said is that he thinks the burden of proof is elsewhere than on the police or ATF. This isn't France, yet.

[bigthaiboy]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=4758701#post4758701

[FS00008]

PEZHEAD, you're full of it. Not illegal.

[Alex$]

... if you have a o3 licence and ATF comes by and takes a look and next to your Yugo,Russian and Rommanian sits the Chinese with a bayo it may be a problem.Now it is your problem to prove it is pre ban and if you can't do it by serial number you need a originial receipt.Besides it looking cool what do you need a bayo for anway?

How would they possibly see the non-C&R rifle inside your locked gunsafe? Last I checked the BATFE did not require x-ray vision as a prerequisite for being an agent. When they audit you they are looking at your bound book and may want to verify the S/N of the logged firearms.

Any firearms that are not logged or C&R is none of their business without probably cause and a search warrant. If they have those, a Chinese SKS with a bayonet is going to be the least of your worries.

[PsychGuy274]

Yes you can. He can optionally tell the "someone" to mind their own business.

A better course of action would be to take advantage of the situation and attempt to educate the other person instead of just dismissing them. If they keep at it after that, then tell them to mind their own business.

[CSACANNONEER]

It is illegal to have a bayo on a Chinese SKS.The Chinese SKS is the only one that is not C&R and that is because it is hard to date by serial numbers.Being that is hard to date you can't tell if it is pre or post ban.Aim surplus sold about 20 of them in the last year they all didn't have bayo's but had the lugs.I sold 2 at a gun show in stockton and was told to take them off because they were illegal.Ask a old time FFL about it and the ATF was going around looking for them back after the ban.Are they going to throw you in jail most likely not but it may be a problem if you have a o3 licence and ATF comes by and takes a look and next to your Yugo,Russian and Rommanian sits the Chinese with a bayo it may be a problem.Now it is your problem to prove it is pre ban and if you can't do it by serial number you need a originial receipt.Besides it looking cool what do you need a bayo for anway?

Please site the law that makes it illegal to POSSESS a Chinese SKS with a bayo. I'm positive that you won't findone. Now, importing or manufacturing (installing a bayo without following 922 (r) is a crime but, mere possession or offering for sale is not illegal.

[PEZHEAD265]

http://www.simonov.net/Files/assembly.zip

Take a look at this.A bayo has to do with the non sporting laws not 922 compliant.Someone should take this down this ?? to the FFL forum and educate your selfs before you let your mouth overload your brain or lack of one.I know for a fact that the Chinese SKS cant be dated by the serial numbers.Why are they not on the C&R list???Alex I would check in to that I don't think that BAFT needs a search warrant to check your # of your C&R guns.

[Alex$]

http://www.simonov.net/Files/assembly.zip
Take a look at this.A bayo has to do with the non sporting laws not 922 compliant.Someone should take this down this ?? to the FFL forum and educate your selfs before you let your mouth overload your brain or lack of one.I know for a fact that the Chinese SKS cant be dated by the serial numbers.Why are they not on the C&R list???Alex I would check in to that I don't think that BAFT needs a search warrant to check your # of your C&R guns.

Thank you for underscoring my point so bluntly, they do not need a warrent to check your C&R guns. A Chinese SKS is not a C&R.

In case it isn't self-evident I will explain. Since a Chinese SKS is not C&R, it will not be in your bound book, nor will it be the subject of a 03FFL audit. So it is locked in the safe where they will not see it.

This goes back to your post about getting in trouble with a Chinese SKS with a bayonet next to other SKS's.

[PEZHEAD265]

Thank you for underscoring my point so bluntly, they do not need a warrent to check your C&R guns. A Chinese SKS is not a C&R.

In case it isn't self-evident I will explain. Since a Chinese SKS is not C&R, it will not be in your bound book, nor will it be the subject of a 03FFL audit. So it is locked in the safe where they will not see it.

This goes back to your post about getting in trouble with a Chinese SKS with a bayonet next to other SKS's.

If they don't need a warrent to check your C&R guns they can make you open the safe to check them elimiting the need for x-ray vision.Read section 27 CFR 478.23 paragraph C and it will tell you that he has every right to do so.I guess you proved my point for me THANKS.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Pezhead, you are extremely confused on so many issues in this thread that I don't even know where to begin.

You admit that Chinese SKSs are not C&R, but then claim that BATFE has a right to inspect somebody's Chinese SKS during a C&R audit. Why would they be able to audit a non-C&R firearm during a C&R license audit?

You claim that it is illegal to have a bayonet on a Chinese SKS because it is non-sporting and not because of 922(r). But 922(r) is the part of the law that deals with assembling non-sporting firearms.

[PEZHEAD265]

When the BAFT agent is doing a C&R audit and see's illegal firearm in your safe do you really think he is going to look the other way.Go to cheaperthendirt and look up sks bayonets and they say it is illegal to have on one imported after 1989.So what you are saying that it that a NORINKO SKS has to have less then 10 foreign parts to have the bayo on it.A Norinco SKS can't have a bayo on it if it was imported after 1989.My understanding is a copy of that rifle not the actual import has to have less then 10 foreign parts to become 922 compliant.The Chinese SKS was imported without the bayo intil 1994 so how does the 922r laws apply???

[Ron-Solo]

PezHead,

As a C&R 03 FFL, the BATF can audit my C&R guns once a year, but it doesn't have to be at my house. It can be at their office. If I do allow them at my house, I don't have to give them access to my safe. I can bring my C&R guns in to the kitchen table (or anywhere else I feel like) and they can compare my records to the guns I bring to the table.

The audit is completely different than an audit for an 01/02/07 FFL.

[PEZHEAD265]

Can you explain this to me in 27 CFR 478.23 c it say basicly once a year that they can inspect for no reason at all during normal hours the premises and the places of storage.That sounds like the safe to me.The 27 cfr 478.23 covers dealers and collecters alike

[Mssr. Eleganté]

When the BAFT agent is doing a C&R audit and see's illegal firearm in your safe do you really think he is going to look the other way.

The BATFE agent doing a C&R audit will not see anything inside my safe. Why would he even be in my house?

Go to cheaperthendirt and look up sks bayonets and they say it is illegal to have on one imported after 1989.

We'll skip over the fact that you are getting legal advice from the Cheaperthandirt web site (a site that says it is illegal to own AR15 cleaning kits in California ). But did you just admit that it is perfectly legal to have a bayonet on a Chinese SKS imported before 1989? At least we are making some headway here. Yesterday you were claiming that It is illegal to have a bayo on a Chinese SKS." There were tens of thousands of Chinese SKS rifles imported before 1989 and all of them can legally keep their bayonets.

So what you are saying that it that a NORINKO SKS has to have less then 10 foreign parts to have the bayo on it.A Norinco SKS can't have a bayo on it if it was imported after 1989.My understanding is a copy of that rifle not the actual import has to have less then 10 foreign parts to become 922 compliant.The Chinese SKS was imported without the bayo intil 1994 so how does the 922r laws apply???

922(r) applies because by adding a bayonet to a Chinese SKS imported after 1990 you are considered to be assembling a rifle from imported parts. But if you play the 922(r) 10 parts game then the rifle is then considered to be assembled from domestic parts and it is perfectly legal to add the bayonet.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Can you explain this to me in 27 CFR 478.23 c it say basicly once a year that they can inspect for no reason at all during normal hours the premises and the places of storage.That sounds like the safe to me.The 27 cfr 478.23 covers dealers and collecters alike

You have to read all of 27 CFR 478.23(c). Not just little snippets from the Cheaperthandirt website.

(c) Any ATF officer, without having reasonable cause to believe a violation of the Act has occurred or that evidence of the violation may be found and without demonstrating such cause before a Federal magistrate or obtaining from the magistrate a warrant authorizing entry, may enter during hours of operation the premises, including places of storage, of any licensed collector for the purpose of inspecting or examining the records, documents, firearms, and ammunition referred to in paragraph (a) of this section (1) for ensuring compliance with the recordkeeping requirements of this part not more than once during any 12-month period or (2) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide criminal investigation. At the election of the licensed collector, the annual inspection permitted by this paragraph shall be performed at the ATF office responsible for conducting such inspection in closest proximity to the collectors premises.

(D) At the election of a licensed collector, the annual
inspection of records and inventory permitted under this paragraph
shall be performed at the office of the Attorney General designated
for such inspections which is located in closest proximity to the
premises where the inventory and records of such licensed collector
are maintained.