Really interested in Enfields

[jcaoloveshine]

Having been able to shoot an Enfield two days ago, I'm really interested in them now, the No.4s having caught my eye.

I really loved the micrometer sights on there, hugest complaint I ever had about shooting milsurps was v notch sights on some guns, but with the Enfield it seems very intuitive.

What sort of accuracy potential do these rifles hold? Now I know with all the surp out there (Pakistani etc) 4MOA is probably typical, but how accurate can these rifles get? It seems like most of these Enfield No. 4 rifles run in the 250-300 range.

I also have a question about the micrometer sights, how exactly do they work? Like let's say I'm zeroed at 100, do I turn it a certain number of revolutions to get to 300, 400 etc like an AR15 sight using battle zero?

[littlejake]

There are two types of micrometer sights that I know of on Enfield No 4's -- one is a milled sight and the other stamped. The milled sight flips up and has a smaller aperature -- it is marked off in yards. The No 4 is capable of accuracy that is as good as you can aim it.

I have seen some No 4 MkII's for sale in the past couple of years that date to 1955 and are still in mummy wrap.

The jungle carbine (Rifle No 5) is a bit less accurate due to "firing a bullet through a funnel" -- the fixed flash suppressor.

You might consider getting Stratton's book on No 4 and No5 rifles -- available in paperback on Amazon for $19.95. It's a must have for the Enfield collector.

http://www.amazon.com/British-Enfield-Rifles-Lee-Enfield-Collectors/dp/1882391241/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269349905&sr=8-2

[SKSer]

I actually just took my Enfield out the other day, Its a no1 mark III, I havnt fired it in almost 10 years. I was thinking about selling it, but it was the first gun ive owned. I finally sucked it up and bought 60 rounds of ammo for $90, but I also bought the reloading dies for it . It is a fun rifle, when I got mine, 13 years ago, it was $89 from Big 5 and the surplus ammo was like $12.00 per box of 30. With Iron sights at 100 yards I was shooting about 3-4inch groups. I only shot 2 different 3 shot groups, and that was rested on a sand bag on a rickity table. I didnt put that much time into really trying to see the accuracy potential. Im guessing 2-3 inch groups at 100 yards would be the fair. The cool thing about them is that the grouping doesnt open up that much the farther you go out. I was watching a video on youtube and there was a guy on there shooting like 4-5 inch groups at 600 yards (thats another reason why I kept it).

UPDATE: its actually like 5-6" groups at 600 yards, here is the video:

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Micrometer sights are not the standard ones used. My No.4 Mk I has two plain-jane flip up peep sights set at 300 and 600 yards, respectively. The SMLE (No.1 Mk III) makes it easier to shoot at 100 yards; I think the lowest sight setting is 200. It has been awhile since I have been able to take them to the range (or just go to the range in general). I couldn't tell you how those micrometer sights work, unfortunately. No experience with them.

[Milsurp Collector]

hugest complaint I ever had about shooting milsurps was v notch sights on some guns

There are several milsurp rifles that don't have V-notch sights

M1917 Enfield


M1903A3


M1 (Garand) Rifle


M1 Carbine

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

Pointing out the five or so milsurp rifles that do have peep sights is not going to change the fact that most do not. Not sure what the point of that post was.

[Argonaut]

The M1917 ( Enfield) is superior to the Lee Enfields. It cocks on the opening, 1s 30-06 caliber and has vastly superior sights. There is a 303 British version called the P14. These guns were built on stolen patents from Mauser and are the basis for the modern Remington 700 rifles. I have several, one sporterized to 458 Win Mag. The 1917 was the most common rifle with the US troops in the WW1 battlefields.

[paul0660]

Pointing out the five or so milsurp rifles that do have peep sights is not going to change the fact that most do not. Not sure what the point of that post was.

True, but they were nice pics.

I have always wondered about the difference in accuracy between the 2 groove #4mk1 and the 5 groove.........my two groove still came with the 300/600 peep sight, but I wasn't going to scare anyone at 600 yards.

[Milsurp Collector]

Pointing out the five or so milsurp rifles that do have peep sights is not going to change the fact that most do not. Not sure what the point of that post was.

Just making him aware of other milsurps that don't have V-notch sites in case he hasn't considered them.

[FMJBT]

The M1917 ( Enfield) is superior to the Lee Enfields. It cocks on the opening, 1s 30-06 caliber and has vastly superior sights.

The 30-06 is definitely a harder hitting round than the 303, but I've always prefered the lightning fast cock-on-closing, rear locking lug action of the No. 4 to the Mauser type action on the 1917's. Likewise with the flip up micrometer sights on the No.4's, I've always considered them to be some of the best battle rifle sights ever made.

[smle-man]

5 round group with a fouling shot (intentionally low) with a #4mk2 and S&B ball; 100 yds from a bench. A #4 in good shape, properly bedded with quality ammo is a very accurate rifle.

Also:

the 1917 and the P14 cock on closing not on opening unless a Numrich conversion was installed in the bolt. The standard sight for the #4 series is the Mk1 click adjustable sight. The two position peep was a WW2 expedient. The stamped adjustable sight was another WW2 expedient retained by Long Branch for post war production.

[Pthfndr]

Most war time No4 rifles came with the flip type "L" peep sight. But the rear bridge is the same size as those that used the flip up micrometer sight. Numrich sells the micrometer sight for the carbine, which is only graduated to 800 meters. But otherwise it's the same as the micrometer sight that can be found on the No4 MkI/Mk2 rifles.

I put one on my U.S. Property marked Savage No4 MkI to use for the milsurp silhouette matches at the Sac Valley range. The micrometer sights have distinct clicks to them. I ran a ladder test on mine one time to see how much each click would change the point of impact at 100 yards. I don't remember the number but I have it written down somewhere.

Folded down



View through the "battle sight"



With the sight up to use the micrometer adjustment. You can see it's set at 300. With my hand load that's dead on for the pig silhouettes at 300 meters. (verified yesterday)

[jcaoloveshine]

thanks for all the input guys, how much does one of these no.4 rifles w/ micrometer sight run for let's say good-> mint condition in terms of barrel and crown?

and how hard is it to bed the rifle? DIY or smith work?

i really liked how smooth the bolt was and the 10 round magazine

[dwa]

would a micro meter sight work on an ishapore enfield?

[smle-man]

You need a BSA 5A sight for an Ishapore 2A1. They go for about what the rifle costs these days.

http://rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.htm