C&R Bound Book Question(s)

[owyhee]

Having an argument with a buddy of mine about details around the record keeping requirements for C&R licensees:

• He is under the impression that the caliber recorded in the bound book must be caliber. He has been converting things such as 9mm Para to .38 caliber. I've been recording what is on the firearm with more detail in parenthesis (e.g. 7.92 as marked and 8mm Mauser in parenthesis).

• He has been recording the full manufacturer/importer name regardless of if it is on the firearm (C.A.I. becomes Century International Arms). I've been putting what is on there directly and in some cases shortened names when it is unambiguous (Star Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A. -> STAR).

• He always removes "Model" from the model designation even if it is on the firearm. Again I've just followed what is on there directly, including it if it is present.

He is extremely adamant I am inviting ATF to take away my license and at this point brings it up every time I talk to him. I've spent a few hours looking at the ATF regs and can't seem to find anything explicit that says either one of us is right. At this point I'm leaning towards me being right (what is on there goes) and ATF probably doesn't care that much unless you are actually lying. Any of y'all have input so I can put this bed?

[morrcarr67]

Having an argument with a buddy of mine about details around the record keeping requirements for C&R licensees:

• He is under the impression that the caliber recorded in the bound book must be caliber. He has been converting things such as 9mm Para to .38 caliber. I've been recording what is on the firearm with more detail in parenthesis (e.g. 7.92 as marked and 8mm Mauser in parenthesis).
  

• He has been recording the full manufacturer/importer name regardless of if it is on the firearm (C.A.I. becomes Century International Arms). I've been putting what is on there directly and in some cases shortened names when it is unambiguous (Star Bonifacio Echeverria, S.A. -> STAR).
  

• He always removes "Model" from the model designation even if it is on the firearm. Again I've just followed what is on there directly, including it if it is present.
  

He is extremely adamant I am inviting ATF to take away my license and at this point brings it up every time I talk to him. I've spent a few hours looking at the ATF regs and can't seem to find anything explicit that says either one of us is right. At this point I'm leaning towards me being right (what is on there goes) and ATF probably doesn't care that much unless you are actually lying. Any of y'all have input so I can put this bed?

Your buddy is wrong, especially when it comes to the calibre.

First off, 9mm Para doesn't translate to .38 calibre. 9mm is translated to .355. Though, he's more wrong to translate the calibre to anything other than what's on the firearm.

If it's marked 9mm Kurtz, you list it as such, not .380acp. If it's marked 7.65, you list it as such, not .32acp.

The part about the manufacturer/importer is for one or the other. If the true manufacturer's markings are there you should use that.

For instance, if you have a Sig Sauer P6 imported by C.A.I. you would list Sig Sauer in this section, not C.A.I. If you have an old surplus rifle that you know was made in XXX country, but XXX didn't mark the true manufacturer's name on it you will use the importer's name. So, if C.A.I. is the importer and that's how it's marked you can list it that way in your A/D book. Though you can also write it out if you know what the letters mean. In the case of PW Arms, I have no idea what PW stands for so I'm listing it as PW Arms.

For the model name/number it depends on what it is. If it says Model Vz82, I leave the "model" off. If it's a Model of 1927, I will leave the "model" in it.

Rule of thumb is to copy what is on the firearm as it's listed, especially the calibre.

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[19K]

I don’t think either of you are incorrect. This is what the ATF wants.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-II/subchapter-B/part-478

[sbo80]

"converting" one caliber, into another that it clearly is not, certainly is not the correct way to do it, so writing 9mm as .38 is flat wrong. I cannot imagine that ATF expects you to list caliber in imperial units only (inches). Lots of guns are in metric, and that is still the caliber. Now, I never thought about it deeply, but I do wonder since the column is "Caliber or gauge", do they really want the bore size, or do they want the cartridge? I've always been specific to cartridge, as in 8mm Lebel versus 8mm Mauser. But the CA DOJ, though, does actually record firearms only as bore size. They share options on CFARS for all the same bore - i.e. .300BLK is the same as .300 Win Mag, even though it's dramatically different cartridges, you can't differentiate in CFARS (and there's even 2 or more other cartridges in that group). The state just records it as ".300". Same for 7.62x39 and 7.62x54R, it doesn't differentiate. There's lots they do that for. I know DOJ isn't ATF, but now I'm overthinking it.