C&R Handguns vs. CA "Safe List"

[aerosick]

yup, there is some wierd language in there. That single action exemption language about pre-1900 C&R handguns only covers ONE year, 1899. 1898 and older is already exempt as an antique.

I'll see what else I can dig up.

I see it as a Legal Catch-22, making any gun from 1900 until 50 years ago not C&R unless it has been added to the List.

I'll watch for any updates from you.

Thanks,

Billy

[Mssr. Eleganté]

I see it as a Legal Catch-22, making any gun from 1900 until 50 years ago not C&R unless it has been added to the List.

It does no such thing.

In the first place, California has no power to define what is or isn't C&R. The term is defined only in Federal law, and California law defers to this Federal definition in all cases.

In the second place, the part of SB15 that you are worried about doesn't restrict anything. It just gives a double exemption for single action revolvers that were made in 1899. SB15 exempts all C&R handguns from the roster. SB15 also exempts most single action revolvers if they meet certain size and capacity requirements. SB15 also exempts all single action revolvers made in the year 1899 no matter what dimentions or capacity the revolver has. This final group of revolvers are already exempted by the "all C&R handguns" exemption in the law.

Nowhere in SB15 is there a new defintion of the term C&R. In fact, SB15 only makes reference to the Federal definition...

All curio/relic handguns as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations are exempt from the provisions of SB 15.

[mdouglas1980]

So, what is it then?

Just "FUD" on behalf of the stores that say they won't do it?

I've already talked to two stores that have refused to transfer Nagant Revolvers or Makarovs...

Hmmmm.....

I was just wondering which shops these were since I had a similar experience with Guns N Stuff in Vacaville with a CZ-52 I wanted to see if they could order for me. I got the same answer, "See this?, This is the CA roster of safe handguns....." blah blah blah. I went else where.

[aerosick]

It just gives a double exemption for single action revolvers that were made in 1899.

Do you know the reasoning behind needing a double exemption? What good is this doing?

Thanks,

Billy

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Do you know the reasoning behind needing a double exemption? What good is this doing?y

It is simply because the web of laws is too confusing now, even for the guys writing the laws. They were probably trying to exempt "Antiques" from the roster, not knowing that "antiques" are already exempt from needing to go through an FFL in California in the first place. Even people who should know better mix up the terms "curio", "relic", and "antique", as there was a recent article in Guns & Ammo magazine falsely claiming that anything made before 1899 was a "relic" and exempt from Federal firearms transfer laws.

It is also common for stuff to get stuck in the final draft of a bill that actually made sense before the bill was changed. There was apparently a lot of horse trading going on with the cowboy action shooting guys when SB15 was working its way through the system and that "C&R single action revolvers made before 1900" exemption might have been one of many exemptions that got added or deleted during that time.

[Quiet]

Do you know the reasoning behind needing a double exemption? What good is this doing?

Thanks,

Billy

It was to ensure SASS would support the passage of SB15.
There was a brief time period/discussion with SB15, where C&R handguns might not be granted an exemption. So, that specific exemption was included to show SASS that their C&R single-action revolvers were exempt even if the C&R handgun exemption was not included.

[dfletcher]

I was just wondering which shops these were since I had a similar experience with Guns N Stuff in Vacaville with a CZ-52 I wanted to see if they could order for me. I got the same answer, "See this?, This is the CA roster of safe handguns....." blah blah blah. I went else where.

I had a similar problem, tried to use my C & R + COE to not have to do the 10 day wait on a C & R handgun. "Well, we just don't do that" is the response I got. They expected me to drive back 10 days later - gas, bridge toll both ways. No thanks.

Again, point to their SA revolvers on display then ask them to point out a single one on the roster.