Antique (Pre 1889) Black powder .22 Short

[MCM]

Curious if Ca. considers pre 1889, black powder .22 short handguns antiques.
Manufactured before 1889 / ammo not available, FFL not required, OK to ship in the mail like most other states. etc.
Or does Ca. consider modern smokeless powder .22's ammo as available? Even though it wouldn't work in these relics.
Looking at a few late 1850's - early 1880 wall hangers.
That will never again be used as a firearm.

Thanks!

[Python6357]

As far as I know, any firearm that was manufactured before 1898 is considered an antique so you should be good.

[DanGunner]

That’s my understanding as well

[870classic]

I believe the correct date for the firearm to be considered an "Antique" and therefore not subject to FFL requirements to buy and sell, is if the firearm in question was manufactured before January 1, 1899.

[pitfighter]

It gets a little trickier if you are buying from a LGS.
I am not advocating or translating the law.

I have just had multiple encounters with LGS employees/owners who will not sell a pre-1899 cartridge revolver without it transferring it like a traditional firearm.

They stated they were told by ATF that they could not sell these cash and carry, period.

Not arguing this here, literally stating my experience

I buy quite a few pre-1899 revolvers

[Mr. Beretta]

Q: I saw a post that said that pre-1899s are considered modern "firearms" if they are chambered to fire ammunition that is available off-the-shelf. Is this correct?

A: That is absolutely incorrect. ANY gun manufactured before Jan. 1, 1899 (other than a machinegun or other NFA category, such as a short barreled gun) is NOT controlled in any way by Federal law. There is NO Federal requirement for sales of these guns to be handled by Federally licensed dealers. They may be freely bought and sold across State lines by private parties, regardless of what cartridge they are chambered in. (However, State or local laws vary.)

I've attached the below link by Mr. James W. Rawles.

http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

Excellent "pre-1899" firearm info. I suggest printing it out and saving it. Many questions answered regarding pre-1899 firearms.

Plus if you have "Pre-1899" firearms" I respectfully suggest you research & document their dates of manufacture. Most of the time, this can be accomplished via the web.

Good Luck

BTW........If some of your pre -1899 firearms are S&W's their will have a serial number. Provide that serial number to S&W customer service & they will give you an accurate manufacturing date.

[Mr. Beretta]

I believe the correct date for the firearm to be considered an "Antique" and therefore not subject to FFL requirements to buy and sell, is if the firearm in question was manufactured before January 1, 1899.

100% correct.

[MCM]

Almost 100%........Need to add ammunition not in production / readily available. Thats why I asked about .22 short. I know one is Black powder and one inst. Just wanted to ask. Am 99.9% sure. But am trying for 100%...
Prior to purchase...

Example, cowboy action folks took several guns off the list when the old ammo went back into mainstream production.
As I understand it.

[mosinnagantm9130]

Almost 100%........Need to add ammunition not in production / readily available. Thats why I asked about .22 short. I know one is Black powder and one inst. Just wanted to ask. Am 99.9% sure. But am trying for 100%...
Prior to purchase...

Example, cowboy action folks took several guns off the list when the old ammo went back into mainstream production.
As I understand it.

Cowboy action folks are wrong. Anything pre-1899 is an antique

Pre-1899 receiver Mosins are antiques, same with Krags, and its not like nobody makes 7.62x54r or .30-40

[MCM]

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php?title=Antique_Firearms

(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and
manufactured in or before 1898. This includes any matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or
replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the
year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before
1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United
States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of
commercial trade.

[AR22]

As long as you can verify it is antique status,you can receive freely. ATF does not recognize genuine antiques as Firearms. I cannot say what CA rules are. Been gone along time. But where I live now, no restrictions at all on antique. It can get very difficult to prove some are actually antique in the lesser known Firearms though, as the same models were made in both the pre 1899 era and after also. Usually Colts and such are easy as there are records showing serial data.

[SkyHawk]

Almost 100%........Need to add ammunition not in production / readily available.

That is incorrect. If it is a conventional firearm made before 1899, it is antique. Period. It does not matter what ammo it uses unless it is SBS or SBR or a cane gun or zip gun/unrecognizeable gun.

State law:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16170.

(a) As used in Sections 30515 and 30530, “antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured before January 1, 1899.

Fed law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...tique_Firearms

(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or
conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and
manufactured in or before 1898. This includes any matchlock,
flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or
replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the
year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before
1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United
States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of
commercial trade.

That only applies to SBS or SBR or anything else listed in PC16590 like a cane gun
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16590.

[morrcarr67]

Q: I saw a post that said that pre-1899s are considered modern "firearms" if they are chambered to fire ammunition that is available off-the-shelf. Is this correct?

A: That is absolutely incorrect. ANY gun manufactured before Jan. 1, 1899 (other than a machinegun or other NFA category, such as a short barreled gun) is NOT controlled in any way by Federal law. There is NO Federal requirement for sales of these guns to be handled by Federally licensed dealers. They may be freely bought and sold across State lines by private parties, regardless of what cartridge they are chambered in. (However, State or local laws vary.)

I've attached the below link by Mr. James W. Rawles.

http://www.rawles.to/Pre-1899_FAQ.html

Excellent "pre-1899" firearm info. I suggest printing it out and saving it. Many questions answered regarding pre-1899 firearms.

Plus if you have "Pre-1899" firearms" I respectfully suggest you research & document their dates of manufacture. Most of the time, this can be accomplished via the web.

Good Luck

BTW........If some of your pre -1899 firearms are S&W's their will have a serial number. Provide that serial number to S&W customer service & they will give you an accurate manufacturing date.

Thanks for the link. A whole bunch of info that's new to me.

[mosinnagantm9130]

That is incorrect. If it is a conventional firearm made before 1899, it is antique. Period. It does not matter what ammo it uses unless it is SBS or SBR or a cane gun or zip gun/unrecognizeable gun.

State law:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16170.



Fed law:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921

That only applies to SBS or SBR or anything else listed in PC16590 like a cane gun
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=16590.

This ^^^

[MCM]

Thanks!