Silencerco Suppressed Muzzle Loader

[dwalker]

Not today. There will be too many people calling. I may try to call in a few days. Until then, I will rely on the opinion of California lawyers who know and understand California firearms laws instead of blindly believing advertising hype.

So you have not even tried?


Typical.

[omgwtfbbq]

I'd like to know how he thinks PC 33410 doesn't apply:



Unfortunately, PC 16520 only exempts unloaded antique firearms for certain penal codes and as RickD427 pointed out, PC33410 is not included in that list of exemptions for unloaded antique firearms. So, it is even illegal to own or posses in CA. However, if the CEO of SC can clearly show how it is legal, I'll order one asap.

IANAL but, the definition of a "silencer" according ye olde penal Code 12500 (not sure what the new PC is) is "A device designed, used, or intended for use in silencing, diminishing, or muffling the report of a firearm...."

The product in question is a muzzleloader with an integral suppressor that, correct me if I'm wrong, can't be removed. If this is the case then I see no issue with compliance with CA PC because the product doesn't meet the definition of a "silencer". As others have pointed out, Muzzleloaders are not considered "firearms" by either the BAFTE or the CADOJ.


EDIT: After reading the thread linked by CSA above, I believe the arguments against the legality of the Maxim 50 is contingent on the fact that Section 33410 CAPC doesn't explicitly state that a loaded antique firearm is exempt from consideration as a firearm. However, if you reference Section 16170 of the PC as quoted below you will see...

16170.
(a) As used in Sections 30515 and 30530, “antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured before January 1, 1899.

(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, “antique firearm” has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.

(c) As used in Section 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:

(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898. This includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.

(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.


(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.)

The bolded section indicated that for the use of interpreting Section 16520 of the Ca PC, the definition of an "antique firearm" that in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code which reads as follows:

(16) The term “antique firearm” means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or

(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or

(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or

(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “antique firearm” shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.

The bolded section states that the popular federal caveat that a "firearm" is not in fact a "firearm" if it does not use modern rimfire or centerfire ammunition.

[csshih]

I imagine it's the same reason we can get suppressors on airguns.

[jakeair777]

yea i figured this will be quick lived in commiefornia. may be nice somewhere else

[naeco81]

They are not shipping to CA as of right now per info shared in the other thread.
Can you not make extra threads about a topic already under discussion? It's annoying and fragments the flow of info as evidenced by you missing the point already shared elsewhere.

[jakeair777]

look at post times, mine was first

They are not shipping to CA as of right now per info shared in the other thread.
Can you not make extra threads about a topic already under discussion? It's annoying and fragments the flow of info as evidenced by you missing the point already shared elsewhere.

[naeco81]

Look at when that thread was created about the same thing you created this thread about.
That thread is days old. Your thread is hours old.
The point is you could have asked your question in that very thread.

[CSACANNONEER]

So you have not even tried?


Typical.

Nope, I PMed them when I saw they had a representative on FB. They have chosen not to respond to my questions at all. I did say that I'm ready to purchase if they can explain how it's legal in CA. So, you would think they would have wanted the immediate sale instead of ignoring me.

[EBR Works]

Nope, I PMed them when I saw they had a representative on FB. They have chosen not to respond to my questions at all. I did say that I'm ready to purchase if they can explain how it's legal in CA. So, you would think they would have wanted the immediate sale instead of ignoring me.

Maybe they "know" about you..

[Quiet]

Under CA laws...

"antique firearms" [PC 16170] do not have an exemption to CA "silencer" laws.

"antique firearms" [PC 16170(b)] are only exempt from the following CA firearm laws:
01. Infreqent transfers. [PC 16520(d)(1)]
02. CA DROS. [PC 16520(d)(2)]
03. Operation of law transfers. [PC 16520(d)(3)]
04. "used firearm" transfer laws. [PC 16520(d)(4)]
05. Unloaded handgun open carry laws. [PC 16520(d)(5)]
06. Unloaded long gun open carry laws. [PC 16520(d)(6)]
07. Requirement to be a CA FFL dealer in order to transfer it. [PC 16520(d)(7)]
08. CA FFL dealer requirements when transferring firearms. [PC 16520(d)(8)]
09. Required minimum age to transfer. [PC 16520(d)(9)]
10. Required identifying marks/engravings on handguns. [PC 16520(d)(10)]
11. 10 day waiting period. [PC 16520(d)(11)]
12. PPT requirement to transfer through CA FFL dealer. [PC 16520(d)(12)]
13. Registration requirement for importing into CA and requirement to use CA FFL dealer to legally import into CA. [PC 16520(d)(13)]
14. Requirement to be licensed as a manufacturer in order to legally make in CA. [PC 16520(d)(14)]
15. Firearm storage requirements. [PC 16520(d)(15)]
16. "home built firearm" marking/engraving and registration requirements. [PC 16520(d)(16)]

In addition to the above, specific types of "antique firearms" [PC 16170(c)] are exempt from these additional CA firearm laws: [PC 17700]
01. Camouflaging firearm container laws.
02. Cane gun laws.
03. Unrecognizable firearm laws.
04. Short Barrel Rifle laws.
05. Short Barrel Shotgun laws.
06. Unconventional pistol laws.
07. Undetectable firearm laws.
08. Wallet gun laws.
09. Zip gun laws.