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  • #16
    emcon5
    Veteran Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 3347

    An honest answer to your question is "you can't tell"

    At 200 yards, a 12" steel plate is ~6 MOA, so a decent shooting rifle should be capable of hitting it every time easily. However, there are too many unknowns to make that determination.

    Ammo: Some people have reported good luck with Privi ammo, I have never found it to be particularly accurate in any of my guns. Here is a great example, using a scout scope on a German K98, 5 rounds of Privi, followed by 8 rounds of handloads I had left that I worked up for a different rifle.


    Based on the Privi results, I would have said "Nope, not a good shooter", but very happy with the handload results.

    The Privi stuff available here is also the woefully under-powered "8MM Mauser" SAAMI spec, 198 gr FMJ at only 2180 FPS, compared to the CIP spec "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ s.S. Patrone military load)

    Sights: The sights are not very precise, either in alignment or zeroing.

    The sights were designed for shooting man sized targets, or at the longer ranges troop formations, so the need to be precise was never a high priority. They are fine for this application, and reasonably fast to acquire & line up, but for shooting smaller targets they are not ideal, especially if your eyes are not perfect. The easiest way I have found is to use a largish black target, and use a 6:00 hold, so the entire aiming black is sitting on the tip of the front sight. I have a PDF file of the 100 yard reduced versions of the NRA Service Rifle targets I use that work pretty well, but I like the copy of the German acceptance target I linked above:



    I shoot smaller groups with a 6:00 hold on that target than I do a ~6 MOA aiming black circle on the NRA targets. The copies I made are free to download, from the thread I linked above.

    The windage adjustment is with a hammer, unless you have one of the special sight pusher tools, so it is rarely perfect, and this is exaggerated the farther you go. The elevation adjustments are also quite coarse, with ~3 MOA elevation change from the 100M to the 200M setting, and ~3.5 MOA between 200m and 300m (that is a best guess, based on the trajectory of s.S. Patrone). The steps get larger the higher up the ladder you go. German rear sights have a notch for half-steps (150, 250, etc), not sure if the Yugos do.

    This is just a long and drawn out way of saying, your rifle will put all its shots in a circle (how big that circle is is to be determined), but it is unlikely the point of impact circle is perfectly aligned with the circle of the target. Even if your rifle is ~3 MOA, and putting every shot inside that 6 inch circle at 200 yards, if 1/3 of that area is off the edge of the target since your sights are not perfectly zeroed for that range, you could easily miss with 30% of your shots.

    And the last piece of the puzzle is you. How were you shooting? Sight alignment and trigger control still matter, even if you are firing from sandbags on a bench.

    At 200 yards, wind certainly exists, but it is of so little effect it is really not worth paying any attention to unless it is really whipping.

    So really long story short, go to 100 yards and shoot at a paper target, even something you can print out, and you can get a much better idea of how good the rifle actually shoots. And if it is not as good as you would like, there are a few things you can do to try and improve things, how the action sits in the stock, contact between the stock or handguard and the barrel, contact between the magazine box and the action, and a couple more, all of which can degrade accuracy.

    Comment

    • #17
      SamGoldstein
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2012
      • 1011

      Originally posted by emcon5
      An honest answer to your question is "you can't tell"

      At 200 yards, a 12" steel plate is ~6 MOA, so a decent shooting rifle should be capable of hitting it every time easily. However, there are too many unknowns to make that determination.

      Ammo: Some people have reported good luck with Privi ammo, I have never found it to be particularly accurate in any of my guns. Here is a great example, using a scout scope on a German K98, 5 rounds of Privi, followed by 8 rounds of handloads I had left that I worked up for a different rifle.


      Based on the Privi results, I would have said "Nope, not a good shooter", but very happy with the handload results.

      The Privi stuff available here is also the woefully under-powered "8MM Mauser" SAAMI spec, 198 gr FMJ at only 2180 FPS, compared to the CIP spec "8x57" IS 198 gr FMJ is 2425 FPS, (essentially the 1934+ s.S. Patrone military load)

      Sights: The sights are not very precise, either in alignment or zeroing.

      The sights were designed for shooting man sized targets, or at the longer ranges troop formations, so the need to be precise was never a high priority. They are fine for this application, and reasonably fast to acquire & line up, but for shooting smaller targets they are not ideal, especially if your eyes are not perfect. The easiest way I have found is to use a largish black target, and use a 6:00 hold, so the entire aiming black is sitting on the tip of the front sight. I have a PDF file of the 100 yard reduced versions of the NRA Service Rifle targets I use that work pretty well, but I like the copy of the German acceptance target I linked above:



      I shoot smaller groups with a 6:00 hold on that target than I do a ~6 MOA aiming black circle on the NRA targets. The copies I made are free to download, from the thread I linked above.

      The windage adjustment is with a hammer, unless you have one of the special sight pusher tools, so it is rarely perfect, and this is exaggerated the farther you go. The elevation adjustments are also quite coarse, with ~3 MOA elevation change from the 100M to the 200M setting, and ~3.5 MOA between 200m and 300m (that is a best guess, based on the trajectory of s.S. Patrone). The steps get larger the higher up the ladder you go. German rear sights have a notch for half-steps (150, 250, etc), not sure if the Yugos do.

      This is just a long and drawn out way of saying, your rifle will put all its shots in a circle (how big that circle is is to be determined), but it is unlikely the point of impact circle is perfectly aligned with the circle of the target. Even if your rifle is ~3 MOA, and putting every shot inside that 6 inch circle at 200 yards, if 1/3 of that area is off the edge of the target since your sights are not perfectly zeroed for that range, you could easily miss with 30% of your shots.

      And the last piece of the puzzle is you. How were you shooting? Sight alignment and trigger control still matter, even if you are firing from sandbags on a bench.

      At 200 yards, wind certainly exists, but it is of so little effect it is really not worth paying any attention to unless it is really whipping.

      So really long story short, go to 100 yards and shoot at a paper target, even something you can print out, and you can get a much better idea of how good the rifle actually shoots. And if it is not as good as you would like, there are a few things you can do to try and improve things, how the action sits in the stock, contact between the stock or handguard and the barrel, contact between the magazine box and the action, and a couple more, all of which can degrade accuracy.
      ok. thx. i will try this.

      Comment

      • #18
        risingsun212
        Member
        • Oct 2016
        • 305

        Are Yugo Mausers generally considered accurate shooters? This guy MikeB on YouTube claims that his M48 consistently hits targets from 800 yards out using only iron sight. I have my doubts. Could just be an exception rather than the norm.

        Comment

        • #19
          emcon5
          Veteran Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 3347

          Originally posted by SamGoldstein
          ok. thx. i will try this.
          If it was me, I would do this before you spend a ton of time scrubbing trying to get the bore pristine. You can damage the bore/crown by cleaning incorrectly.

          Originally posted by risingsun212
          Are Yugo Mausers generally considered accurate shooters? This guy MikeB on YouTube claims that his M48 consistently hits targets from 800 yards out using only iron sight. I have my doubts. Could just be an exception rather than the norm.
          Really depends on how big the target is, and how good his eyes are. Got a link? I have hit out to 600 on steel with a K98k, but the target was pretty small ~14" square if I remember correctly. It was a challenge, and I missed more often than I hit. The farthest I shot a Steel IPSC silhouette was ~470 yards, and once I got the elevation I went 3 for 3. I expect I could hit that target with that rifle out to 800, depending on how windy it is. Unfortunately the only place I have found that I could shoot that far our arsehole congress gave away, so I can't shoot there any more. Or any other recreation, for that matter.

          I don't think Yugos are know for being any more accurate than any other military Mauser rifle, but they do have a strong advantage today, in that they were all made post war, and often didn't see a lot of use. I have a Yugo reworked German K98k that the bore looks new.

          Comment

          • #20
            arrowshooter
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2013
            • 724

            Only addressing the accuracy of the M48, below is a link to how my M48A does. Now it is sporterized, has a 12x scope, a like new bore and is shooting hand loads at 100 yards, but it shows that these can be very accurate rifles.

            Comment

            • #21
              DennisCA
              Veteran Member
              • Jul 2011
              • 4025

              Originally posted by NOTABIKER
              Very large
              It's a Mauser not a Mosin
              "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke speech of 23 April 1770, "Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents," delivered to the House of Commons.

              Comment

              • #22
                arrowshooter
                Senior Member
                • Aug 2013
                • 724

                Dark Barrels

                As for frosty/dark barrels being shooters: This is the barrel of a GEW 98 I am having fun sporterizing and how it shoots. You can follow the shot string up as I adjust the scope. Don't mind the .22 holes, that was a guy that I told could shoot the steel that I had out and he took some liberty with my paper.



                Comment

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