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  • cyberfish2
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2015
    • 95

    1st C&R gun

    I picked up an Ortgies 9mm at the Reno gun show, ser#37xxx, all matching parts. It is a 4th variant, as near as I can tell. I have a manual coming for it, and a set of Wolff springs.
    It is a 9mm Kurz, or .380 auto. This gives rise to some confusion for me. When I got it home, I slid a .380 snap cap into the chamber, which fit fine, and a few into the magazine, which also fit fine. But the magazine is marked with the "D, cat emblem" and 7.65mm. (32ACP?)
    When I cycled the slide, the .380 snap cap ejected, but the slide would not retract quite far enough to feed another round.
    Since the .380 rounds fit so well in the magazine, it seems unlikely I need a different magazine. What could be keeping the slide from retracting far enough?
    The serial# on the 9mm barrel is a match to the frame.

    Odd little gun. I found more info, from another forum: If the safety is activated, allowing the backstrap to pop out, the slide will retract far enough to chamber a round. This is weird, because it is hard to work the slide, without holding the backstrap in, which is how the safety is deactivated so the gun can be fired.
    SO, it looks like everything is functioning, if strangely. I like this gun; it has no screws holding it together, and an extremely clean exterior.

    Follow-up: 10/1/16 I just returned from my test firing at my neighbor's range. The Ortgies 9mm/.380acp works just fine. Once I fired off the first shot, something inside the gun reset, that allowed the slide to cycle correctly thereafter. Feed and ejection worked fine. Accuracy was acceptable, as is recoil. I only need a small bandage for the top of my left thumb.
    Last edited by cyberfish2; 11-01-2016, 4:10 PM. Reason: add new info
    NRA, CRPA.
    "It seemed like a good idea at the time."
  • #2
    ArnoldKC
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2014
    • 694

    Post some pictures.
    "A country rescued by their arms from impending ruin, will never leave unpaid the debt of gratitude."

    -George Washington



    "A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

    -Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    • #3
      morrcarr67
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Jul 2010
      • 15053



      Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk
      Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

      Originally posted by Erion929

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      • #4
        Enfield47
        Calguns Addict
        • Sep 2012
        • 6385

        Is the magazine an original or a replacement? I believe the originals had markings for both 7.62 and 9mm Kurz.

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        • #5
          cyberfish2
          Junior Member
          • Jan 2015
          • 95

          Originally posted by morrcarr67


          Sent from my ASUS_Z00TD using Tapatalk
          I would love to post some pictures I've taken, but nothing happens when I click on the link "Insert image".
          NRA, CRPA.
          "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

          Comment

          • #6
            morrcarr67
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Jul 2010
            • 15053

            Originally posted by cyberfish2
            I would love to post some pictures I've taken, but nothing happens when I click on the link "Insert image".
            There are a couple of ways to do. First thing you need to do is have your photos on the internet somewhere; like Photobucket or some other photo hosting site.

            You should get a "pop up" that says "Please enter the URL of your image:" with a box for the URL. Paste a link to your photo in the box.

            If you don't get a pop up you can enter the tags manually. The photo tags are [IMG] and [/IMG]. Type the first tag and then paste the link to your photo and type the second tag at the end of your link. Also keep in mind that there should be no spaces between the tags and the URL.
            Yes you can have 2 C&R 03 FFL's; 1 in California and 1 in a different state.

            Originally posted by Erion929

            Comment

            • #7
              cyberfish2
              Junior Member
              • Jan 2015
              • 95

              Ortgies pix

              Originally posted by ArnoldKC
              Post some pictures.


              I couldn't get the "Insert image" icon to work.
              This link worked OK in my gmail, but in this post, I had to right click on it, and go to "open".
              Even tho the magazine is stamped 7.65mm, with the "D" logo, it takes the
              .380 auto rounds just fine. I have not test fired it yet.
              NRA, CRPA.
              "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

              Comment

              • #8
                cyberfish2
                Junior Member
                • Jan 2015
                • 95

                Link to Ortgies pix.

                Originally posted by morrcarr67
                There are a couple of ways to do. First thing you need to do is have your photos on the internet somewhere; like Photobucket or some other photo hosting site.

                You should get a "pop up" that says "Please enter the URL of your image:" with a box for the URL. Paste a link to your photo in the box.

                If you don't get a pop up you can enter the tags manually. The photo tags are [IMG] and [/IMG]. Type the first tag and then paste the link to your photo and type the second tag at the end of your link. Also keep in mind that there should be no spaces between the tags and the URL.
                Thanks for the good info; I am only marginally computer literate, still using IE with pop up blocker on. I did upload the Ortgies pix to Google photos, manage to set share to everybody, and paste that link in my original post - all without the help of my grandson. He'd be proud.
                There are some brief comments with each picture.
                https://goo.gl/photos/YdJKnq2ENxfM8Hps9
                NRA, CRPA.
                "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

                Comment

                • #9
                  bigbossman
                  I need a LIFE!!
                  • Dec 2012
                  • 11280

                  Here you go, OP:









                  Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line!

                  "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks."

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                  • #10
                    jwb28
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2009
                    • 568

                    7.65mm on mag, 9mm on barrel?

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                    • #11
                      Gutter
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2012
                      • 1215

                      This should help:

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                      • #12
                        cyberfish2
                        Junior Member
                        • Jan 2015
                        • 95

                        Unusual magazine

                        Originally posted by jwb28
                        7.65mm on mag, 9mm on barrel?
                        Strange, huh? Same mark on the opposite side.
                        Some magazines were marked 7.65 on one side and 9mm on the opposite side.
                        Since the barrels, 9mm and 7.65, are interchangeable, I think(?) the magazines were made to handle both sized bullets.
                        This was the issue when I got it home and loaded the SnapCaps, The magazine would not retract quite far enough to feed the .380's from the mag.
                        Then, I read that if the button safety was pushed, allowing the backstrap to pop out about 1/8", the slide could be cycled, loading the chamber.
                        Thanks to BigBossMan for bringing the pix across.
                        I need to go shoot this, to see how it works with the .380 ammo.
                        11-3-16 I did shoot it without problems, other than a cut to the top of my left thumb. Seems I am a slow learner; I've been nicked by the slide recoil before.
                        I cleaned it a bit too thoroughly. The rifling is nice and clean, but more worn than I initially thought, with some light pitting near the chamber. Since this is my first C&R gun, I'm just glad everything worked like it should.
                        Last edited by cyberfish2; 11-03-2016, 5:00 PM.
                        NRA, CRPA.
                        "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          cyberfish2
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2015
                          • 95

                          Ortgies, convertible 9mm to 7.65???

                          I was reading the Wikipedia specs on the .32ACP. While the case and bullet are obviously smaller, the rim is listed as 9.1 mm, which implies they might be loadable into my same magazine, which is stamped 7.65mm and has the "cat D" logo on both sides, but still takes the 9mm Kurz (.380auto), which do load and shoot ok.

                          If the .32ACP does load and feed ok from this same magazine, it would mean this gun could be converted with a simple barrel change to take whatever ammo was available post WW1.

                          I have yet to read anywhere that this was an advertised feature, so it just may not be so, but it is an intriguing possibility.
                          NRA, CRPA.
                          "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

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