Sporterizing milsurp C&R's

[tankerman]

Sporterizing or otherwise reconfiguring MILSURP C&R's. Some people hate it others love it, I'd like to hear some opinions on the subject. I've seen very nice tastefully done rifles, and other that were just turned to garbage. Does the issue have to do with: Military gun collectors on one side and hunters and wanna be home gunsmiths(myself included)on the other. I keep some in original condition others I have reworked, man does that seem to upset some people. Why?
When I came to Calguns a few months back it seems like the C&R forum was used much more. Now everything seems to be more and more and more OLL stuff. It gets boring. Old guns are much more interesting to me. Although I did find this place because I was looking for a place to ask an OLL question. Lowers now collecting dust, unbuilt, I'm back to my old guns and modern sporting rifles. It was like a quick visit to the whorehouse, now I feel dirty.

[The Soup Nazi]

That depends. Almost anything from WW2 and such have in my opinion too much collectors opinion to "put a scope on mah rahffle". The exception to this is usually the Mosin Nagant since there were so many made, no one is going to cry about running out of those anytime soon. But to me, anything that can't come into this country is now off limits, or things with real monetary value. So you can play around with a Yugoslavian SKS, those things asren't going to stop coming in, but don't you dare refinish that Chinese or Russian SKS, and if theres a ban on importing Yugos, then they're off limits.

I guess I'm anal about it, my friend asked me about buying a Springfield from CMP and converting it to a sniper rifle and asked me how I could do it and I told him that it'd probably involve drilling which I would NOT condone. I mean, if you want your own semi auotmatic rifle in 30.06, just buy a receiver from CMP and build your own rifle, I'm pretty sure it isn't going to reunite with its original parts.

[NeoWeird]

In my opinion, it all depends on condition.

I personally would NEVER touch a C&R to bubba it. It's just not in my nature. I like things original, I like the historical/collector value it has to ME (I actually got a C&R with the intent of collection, not just buying rifles and dealer discounts), and I like to have something as strong and rugged as it was 60 years ago.

So if you had a Mosin Nagant, Mauser, Garand, 1903, K-31, etc that was in functioning condition, I would not touch it in anyway. If it takes work to alter a functioning part of the rifle, than I would not do it. That is the point where you have a restoration project, not a sporterizing project. If the rifle is in such poor shape that the cost to restore it would be more than the value of the restored rifle, then you can go and sporterize it. For each weapon it's different, for example a Springfield M1 Garand maybe by at one point, but a Winchester Win-13 Garand is a completely different one. Likewise Mosin-Nagant 91/30 Snipers can be had for the $350-500 range, with good condition 91/30's at less than $100. With new stocks at the prices they are, if your stock needed repair on a 91/30; most people wouldn't care if you bubbaized it some.

Think of it like cars. If you had a 1927 Model T in pristine condition with factory paint and motor, would you turn it into a hot rod? HELL NO. Now if you found a slightly rusted 27 Model T with no motor or tranny would you hot rod it? Most people probably would.

Also, if you want to bubba something, call some of the distributers. I know for a fact AIM has some, some does SOG and probably Century; but retailers and wholesalers will have rifles that they will call things like "Gunsmith specials" where for really cheap (like $40-50 K-31s) you get a rifle that needs some ammount of work to get it to fully functional. I have heard some are as easy as a broken/bent firing pin or rotted wood, where as some are missing a bolt, or a broken trigger, or maybe it's just a barreled action with stock. Call around for something like that; no one will care as much if you bubba one of those, they are cheaper and will make the project more enjoyable, and you can also tack pride in reviving a lost rifle instead of altering an existing one.

Just my thoughts/opinions on it.

[chickenfried]

Personally I only alter c&r's in a non-permanent manner i.e. no drill scope mounts, replacing stock/storing the old one, etc. But it irks me when people get worked up about what some people choose to do with their firearm. For me guns are all about fun. If part of that fun for someone is bubba'ing a c&r, hey whatever floats your boat.

[glen avon]

you are going straight to hell.

[VeryCoolCat]

you spelt BASTARDIZING wrong.

[tankerman]

So far I guess from the responses I should probably refrain from posting pics of what I have done to some of mine. Although the sporterized K31 does look nice. Making a scout scope mount is easy and much less expensive, but you have to be willing to alter it past the point of no return. By the way MRex21, I do like the KRAG sporter you have for sale.
Some just call to me to be messed with, besides There just seems to be something inherently cool about shooting a hog, deer or Elk with a gun and a round most people haven't heard of,in many cases an unscoped rifle just isn't sufficient to insure a clean kill. Some do have top notch sites, not many. I love my Winchester m70 but usually bring it or some other standard as a back-up. Probably the nicest MILSURP sporter I have is an 1893 Mannlicher (Romanian). Sweet as they come, must have been altered at least 50+ years ago. Changes include engraved receiver, sporter stock,shnabel foregrip with the nicest finest checkering I have seen, full rib express sights, stippling on bolt handle, monagrammed plate on underside of stock.

[kenc9]

I don't Bubba any C&R, I'll replace stocks that can be changed back to original and such.

One thing I have noticed that when guys get into collecting is that the longer you collect the less you want to alter anything.

-ken

[chickenfried]

Why not post some pics? Here's a project I'm working on. Want a woods rifle. So I'm refinishing my garand stock with a modern waterproof finish.

Before:


After Sanding:

So far I guess from the responses I should probably refrain from posting pics of what I have done to some of mine.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Before:

I have a Garand stock that somebody carved their intitials into, it looks like WRA+GHD. I figure WRA was some soldier and GHD was his girlfriend back home. It's a shame because otherwise it's a really nice looking stock.

Do you think you could help me refinish it Chickenfried?

[glen avon]

I just pee'd myself, thanks alot AMII.

[slowjonn]

You guys crack me up! WRA was the girlfriend back home, GHD was the soldier. Duh!

For the most part, I don't alter anything permanently. I have a M1 carbine that I put an Ultimak hand guard on and I camo painted a stock for it (the stock was not a GI stock). Added a red dot to it and a tactical sling. That is about as far as I am willing to go on these history pieces. BTW, this particular carbine is a rockola that was so far beyond even a mix-master, that I didn't feel bad doing the mods.

I just really hate the guys that take say a 1898 Krag Carbine and bubba it to go hunting with. That seems to have happened a lot back in the days when they were giving them away. But sheesh, I would gladly give you my nearly new Browning BAR safari with a Leo 3x9 scope for any original Krag carbines you have.

Guns are meant to be fun but messin with history is gonna see you in the hot end of the pool when your maker calls.

[five.five-six]

this thread comes to mind kitten however there are a zillion of those $100-200 mausers

[elsolo]

It's your rifle, you can do just about anything you want to it.
It may cause the rifle to lose value in the long run, if so then don't complain about your mistake.
Most milsurps are sporterized because they are cheap and available. What do those two qualities tell you about them? They aren't exactly rare for the most part, and their value might not appreciate all that much during your lifetime. If you are convinced that "milsurp rifle ____" is going to be worth so much more than you paid for it if you keep it all original, why not buy as many as possible so you can get rich off your fine financial speculation on historical military artifacts?

[ivanimal]

I have bought a K98 to make into a 8MM-06, I also own an 03 A3 in 35 Whelen IMP and 30-06 that have both been sporterized. I have a MAS Carbine that has been made into a hunting rifle but has the original stock. I will probably make one more 8MM-06 before I am done. I do have about 20 other milsurps in their original condition and will never alter them.