Good news for those under 21 in regards to the new ATF 4473 form

[rct442]

I'm under 21, and was in Irvington Arms today to start the DROS for a complete LMT AR15 assembly w/ buttstock and pistol grip. They initially said the new ATF 4473 form prevented someone under 21 from purchasing a stripped AR15 lower receiver, but they wanted to confirm this from the ATF lady who was there today. Because it was a complete lower assembly w/ buttstock and pistol grip, she thought that it was considered a complete rifle. She said she was unfamiliar with this new law, so she would call her supervisor/expert to determine if a complete lower assembly was considered a complete rifle. Tomorrow I'm supposed to call and follow-up on the ATF's decision, and if they confirm her decision I'm going to be extremely relieved.

What really irritates me is that a stripped lower one month ago was only $200, but now I may have to pay over $900 just to buy a AR15 OLL. The only upside is I get a complete rifle for that price, but I lose the ability to customize it from the OLL up.

Alternatively, if the ATF denies my request; I will need to unload this OLL, because CWS doesn't accept returns. PM if you are interested in the SF Bay Area for a quote.

[nobs11]

I would read the actual law and not rely on the opinion of one ATF agent. Most aren't aware of all aspects of the law.

Also, there are no "loopholes." Something is in the letter of the law or it isn't. Loophole is an anti-gun propaganda word.

[DedEye]

Are you paying $900 for a complete rifle, or just a complete lower? If it's a complete rifle, it's a complete rifle.

If it's just a lower but has a buttstock and pistol grip, it may still be considered a rifle, but you shouldn't be paying $900 for it and can still customize it.

[rct442]

Loophole is an inappropriate word to describe what is actually a possible alternative to buying a compete rifle. In regards to the ATF agent's word, she wouldn't allow them to go through with the DROS, until she gets a final/official decision from HQ. I'm hoping the ATF rules in my favor.

[rct442]

Are you paying $900 for a complete rifle, or just a complete lower? If it's a complete rifle, it's a complete rifle.

If it's just a lower but has a buttstock and pistol grip, it may still be considered a rifle, but you shouldn't be paying $900 for it and can still customize it.

It's a complete lower assembly w/ buttstock and pistol grip. I want the option to buy a OLL, without being forced to buy a complete rifle. I'm hoping a complete lower assembly can be a substitute for a complete AR15.

[DedEye]

It's a complete lower assembly w/ buttstock and pistol grip. I want the option to buy a OLL, without being forced to buy a complete rifle. I'm hoping a complete lower assembly can be a substitute for a complete AR15.

I was under the impression the new law was in regards to bare receivers. An AR lower assembly doesn't strike me as a bare receiver since it's already configured to become a rifle (once it has a stock on it, it's considered a rifle and can never be configured as a pistol if I recall correctly).

[PIRATE14]

This will be interesting.....

Our ATF guys in TX said that if it has a RIFLE buttstock.....it's a rifle....

Not too mention that the new reg doesn't take affect just yet...

[rct442]

This will be interesting.....

Our ATF guys in TX said that if it has a RIFLE buttstock.....it's a rifle....

Not too mention that the new reg doesn't take affect just yet...

Even if the this new law hasn't taken into affect yet, can they can still restrict me for being under 21. Also, did your ATF guy put that in print/letter form, because I could use that to defend my position.

[rct442]

I was under the impression the new law was in regards to bare receivers. An AR lower assembly doesn't strike me as a bare receiver since it's already configured to become a rifle (once it has a stock on it, it's considered a rifle and can never be configured as a pistol if I recall correctly).

I thought that too, but ultimately the ATF and the CA DOJ would have to take my word for it, and there would be no way to follow-up if that was the case. I would have to prove it was for a rifle, and right now I don't see how I possibly can do that.

[darkest2000]

I thought once you put a buttstock on the receiver it's considered a rifle. I mean it obviously can't be built into a pistol anymore.

[rct442]

I thought once you put a buttstock on the receiver it's considered a rifle. I mean it obviously can't be built into a pistol anymore.

Quite frankly, someone could register the lower receiver for a rifle, but then illegally configure it into a AR15 pistol. That might only work if one could permanently attach the buttstock, which to the best of my knowledge is difficult.

[DedEye]

Quite frankly, someone could register the lower receiver for a rifle, but then illegally configure it into a AR15 pistol. That might only work if one could permanently attach the buttstock, which to the best of my knowledge is difficult.

Irrelevant. Someone could take a legal AR off list lower and illegally configure it as an assault weapon. Someone breaking the law does not invalidate the fact that what you do is legal according to the law.

A receiver with a buttstock is forever considered a rifle, even if you remove the buttstock.

[rct442]

Irrelevant. Someone could take a legal AR off list lower and illegally configure it as an assault weapon. Someone breaking the law does not invalidate the fact that what you do is legal according to the law.

A receiver with a buttstock is forever considered a rifle, even if you remove the buttstock.

You're preaching to the choir, we will see what develops later. Perhaps the ATF may rule in my favor. I'm just nervous about what will result.

[shark92651]

I had my local ATF agent in the shop yesterday and she confirmed to me that I could DROS a completed lower assembly with buttstock as a long gun to someone under 21. This has already been confirmed by at least one other CA dealer as well. There are a couple threads about this topic already.

[Theseus]

Then I hope for your sake....

I am still trying to buy my parts to build my first, but it is hard because I don't have a job right now. . .