300 BLK in California?

[Jarhead]

its pointless to have a 300 black out in california as you already mentioned since we cant have suppressors and cannot have SBR's. if you want to stop something with a 30 cal projectile shoot it with a 7.62x39 from either an ak or ar up to you !

Its never POINTLESS to have a different caliber if you can afford it

.308, .243, .260, .223, 6.8 etc etc

They are all Fun to shoot and Reload for ..................

[marktse]

I would like to point out its an extremely low recoil ak around at supersonic and its also a super low recoil 45 at supsonic. I mean a subsonic 300 blackout has less recoil than a kriss vector. Even at supersonic, it has less recoil.

In either super or subsonic, 300Blk duplicates other calibres. You should ask yourself if you need to combine both ballistics into one rifle.


Supersonic 300 Blk = 7.62x39

• 300Blk 16" barrel: 125gr, 2215fps
• 7.62x39 16.3" barrel: 122gr, 2396fps

Subsonic 300 Blk = 45 ACP +p

• 300Blk 16" barrel: 220gr, 1010fps
• 45ACP+p 5" barrel: 230gr, 900fps
• 7.62 NATO subsonic: 175gr, 1060fps
  
  Note that 7.62 NATO subsonic bullet weight is lighter because of the twist rate limitation. 7.62 subsonic taken from HSM offering.

[Changalang]

I would like to point out its an extremely low recoil ak around at supersonic and its also a super low recoil 45 at supsonic. I mean a subsonic 300 blackout has less recoil than a kriss vector. Even at supersonic, it has less recoil.

+1

[John Browning]

Originally Posted by geoint View Post
Since suppressors are not allowed, do you guys still think 300 AAC blackout is a worthwhile round within California?

I personally think it is, BUT I dont know if I'd say its worth replacing 223. I'd like to see what others think before I invest in a new upper.

Originally Posted by Rosereader View Post
300 BLK is designed specifically for use with a suppressor, so right off the bat its primary reason for existence is somewhat moot.

That said if you specifically want subsonic ammunition its still an option. Finding it can be a pain and it's not exactly a jaw-dropper performance wise but neither is it a bad cartridge. Honestly it's more taste, I'd go with 6.5 Grendel if I were you.

Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
I am the project lead at AAC on 300 BLK, and I have never heard that we optimized it for a 14 inch barrel for subsonic.

300 AAC Blackout is the longest the case can be and not require modified magazines. So I am not sure how someone can claim it is not optimized for supersonic. It is - provided we made it a requirement to use normal mags. If the case were any longer, it would not be optimal for normal mags.

What did AAC have to do, exactly, in developing the 300 AAC? It is just a standardization of a cartridge that already existed. The .300 AAC is the .300 Whisper, which has been around for decades. Also, the reason it is called .300 Whisper is that it is designed to be quiet, like when suppressed...

[3006mv]

What did AAC have to do, exactly, in developing the 300 AAC? It is just a standardization of a cartridge that already existed. The .300 AAC is the .300 Whisper, which has been around for decades. Also, the reason it is called .300 Whisper is that it is designed to be quiet, like when suppressed...

Correct. I have been reloading for 300 whisper for years before the other ones came out and with free lead cast boolits to boot. I prefer to call it 7.62x35 anyway

So OP did you get your arak21 yet? I am thinking of getting a set but then I saw this https://masterpiecearms.com/products.php?cat=62

[ArmedCMT]

What did AAC have to do, exactly, in developing the 300 AAC? It is just a standardization of a cartridge that already existed. The .300 AAC is the .300 Whisper, which has been around for decades. Also, the reason it is called .300 Whisper is that it is designed to be quiet, like when suppressed...

I dont think rsilvers has joined us in this conversation, I quoted him from a different thread but ill PM him and we'll see what he has to say.


Edit: Ok I sent him a PM but it says he hasnt been on in 3 months so....

[Woody13]

As a pistol in 10.5 which I have two of as well as two 16" it is a blast to shoot and fun as well as accurate out a distance. I also shoot the 5.56 in those sizes as well. I also shoot 7.62, 308, and what makes it nice is if you reload as well or cast for that matter. Also as said if you can afford it why not since it is a tack driver and soon to be a hog gun for me.

[rsilvers]

Saying 300 BLK only makes sense with an SBR or suppressor is the same as saying 7.62x39mm only makes sense with an SBR or suppressor.

300 BLK is for people who like AK ballistics, but want an AR. Yes, it makes sense in CA because it works in existing 5.56mm magazines.

[rsilvers]

300 BLK is designed specifically for use with a suppressor, so right off the bat its primary reason for existence is somewhat moot.

That said if you specifically want subsonic ammunition its still an option. Finding it can be a pain and it's not exactly a jaw-dropper performance wise but neither is it a bad cartridge. Honestly it's more taste, I'd go with 6.5 Grendel if I were you.

I consider 300 BLK primarily the most powerful supersonic 30 cal cartridge that works in AR15 platforms using ordinary magazines with full capacity. The fact that it suppresses well is a bonus.

[tacticalcity]

Saying 300 BLK only makes sense with an SBR or suppressor is the same as saying 7.62x39mm only makes sense with an SBR or suppressor.

300 BLK is for people who like AK ballistics, but want an AR. Yes, it makes sense in CA because it works in existing 5.56mm magazines.

I'd agree with this. The fact that is also happens to be a great suppression option doesn't change the fact that its ballistics are impressive all on their own.

Personally I like the 5.56mm...but the 300 BLK is a tempting option to add to my collection.

[rsilvers]

The 300blk was created at a time when 7.62x39 could not reliably be shot through an AR.

I have broken a few AR bolts with 7.62x39mm. The AR magazine well is straight, and you will never make it as reliable as 300 BLK - but maybe reliable enough.

In fact, the creator said that "AK ammo only works well on AK's" - at the time he said this in 2011, he was probably right. This is no longer true in 2014. In this day and age, you can put together with relative ease and affordability a 7.62x39 AR with just about the same reliability as you would 5.56AR.

I doubt there is a bolt and magazine solution that I would be satisfied with.
Also note that you may want to use a heavier hammer spring for some 7.62x39mm primers, but then don't use the same lower for a 5.56mm upper.

The 7.62x39 round may not be a good idea for the military to adapt on the M16, but for civilians using it on an AR, it's really an awesome round and a relatively easy choice over 300Blk.

I said the same thing and that is why I was never interested in 300 Whisper(R) back then. It was not worth the trouble making brass when I could just use 762x39mm. I build two 7.62x39 ARs and I also own an old Colt. I was never happy with the bolts and magazines and you can buy 300 BLK brass now. Back in the Whisper days, you could not really buy brass.

[rsilvers]

.300 AAC in a rifle is kind of an answer in search of a question unless you run a suppressor. Sierra gives the .300 AAC a 100-150 yard effective range for hunting, which is about right. Some of the 110gr bullets will expand out a little farther, but they get ate up by the wind to a much greater degree than a decent sized .224 bullet with a good BC.

A "little" farther?

300 BLK fully expands to 0.50+ inches at 300 yards from even a 9 inch barrel. There is no 5.56mm bullet which expands anywhere close to that at 300 yards.

In a rifle, the 5.56 is better, and the 6.5G/6.8SPC make the .300 look like a poodle-shooter in comparison. It is a fun toy, but in a rifle without a can, it is more internet-hype than reality. There is a reason the .300 Whisper didn't catch on until a full blown marketing campaign by AAC.

6.8 is more powerful, but it is a (common) mistake to assume that everyone wants the most power at any cost. 6.8 needs special bolts and magazines, 300 BLK does not. Some people like the softer shooting of 300 BLK in a way like they prefer 45 Auto over 40 S&W.

300 BLK, as per FBI testing, is far superior to 5.56mm on certain barriers, such as auto glass. 300 BLK is better at the distances that more than 99% of LE and self-defense shootings happen. Do you want a rifle optimized for distances that no one ever shoots at or one that is better where basically every shooting happens at?

300 Whisper didn't catch on because it was proprietary, not because it was a bad idea.

[rsilvers]

What did AAC have to do, exactly, in developing the 300 AAC? It is just a standardization of a cartridge that already existed. The .300 AAC is the .300 Whisper, which has been around for decades. Also, the reason it is called .300 Whisper is that it is designed to be quiet, like when suppressed...

Remington started with a 30-221 Fireball, and optimized the headspace datum and the radii of the shoulder - and then submitted it to SAAMI.

I wanted to focus on supersonic applications, which is one of the main reasons why I didn't want to call it Whisper (the other being that it was a Trademarked name).

300 BLK is good with a suppressor because it is so efficient, but it still has better-than-7.62x39mm performance at ranges past 120 yards. So when people say it is only good suppressed, that is like saying 7.62x39mm should only be used suppressed. The target will not be able to tell if they were hit with 300 BLK or 7.62x39mm.

[triggs75]

Well I've been reading about these for a while and am finally biting the bullet and building one. I'm building it with a 16" cmmg barrel. Figured this looks like a fun round to try.

If for some odd reason I do not like it, I just need to change out the barrel and back to a 5.56.

Chad

[NapalmCheese]

Relatively low noise, relatively low recoil, subsonic rounds? What's not to like? Have you ever run the ballistics on subsonic ammo? It looks neato! Sure you have to hold way over, but you lose so little velocity, it's just cool.

Seems like it'd make for fun centerfire plinking.