my ar15 sucks

[Rangem4]

If you want a shooter that produces really tight groups I don't think the AR is the right platform.
Now a bolt action Remington 700 with say .223 fouled and dialed in you could get less than an inch at 100 yards.

[mif_slim]

I was under the impression that is about is good as it gets at 100 yards.. I do have a JP Enterprises cyrogenic, lead lapped 16" stainless with a Bennie Cooley comp. with a match grade bolt but that barrel kit cost about $650.
At 50 yards I can squeeze about 1 and 1/2 inch group.
These are military platform rifles right?
If you can hit a mans heart at 100 yards that is pretty good.
Someone correct me. Maybe I am full of crap, wouldn't be the first time, ask my wife.

Depending on build and barrel type. but standard Chromemoly barrel should get at least 2moa unless the maker is building crap barrels. I have a DPMS barrel and it shoots 1.5moa. Also had a DPMS SS that shot sub-MOA.

[NewbieDave]

With a mil-spec barrel shooting 55/62gr NATO loads, shooting off a brenchrest with optics... you should be able to shoot 1 MOA or better at 100 yards. Unless your setup is pure junk from a backwoods/hill-billy built... then I guess 4" is pretty good

[Josh3239]

It is the scope and/or mounts. Fix it.

[tal3nt]

How many rounds down the pipe total? Did you buy it used?

[HK Dave]

My guess is scope or mount as well.

[G21Shooter]

Allow me to be upfront here, your upper and scope are junk, buy better ones.

If you want a really accurate AR15 upper look into the Rock River Predator. You will be shooting sub inch groups all day long with ease. A good scope mount like a LaRue LT104 or at least a Burris PERP and a Nikon M223 scope and your good to go.

Rock River upper in stock here.

http://pkfirearms.com/RRA_Stainless_Uppers/204/c

[G21Shooter]

Double

[FeuerFrei]

it's equipped with a dpms 16" bull upper and simmon classic 6.5-20x50 scope.

I'm getting about a 4" group at 100 yards. By far the worst grouping I've ever had with any rifle. I've tried several types of factory and loaded ammo. I have to believe that either something is wrong with this rifle and/or probably just a bad barrel. It's just hard for me to believe that a barrel can be this bad.

any idea before I start searching for a new upper?

Buddy of mine was having the same problem on a YH varmint upper and everything looked/felt solid.
I broke it down and found the barrel nut was loose.
I torqued it down and test shot it with much better results.
Sometimes it's the little things.

[milotrain]

unless the chambering job was junk then I find it hard to believe that any AR upper, no matter how poorly manufactured (within mil spec) is a 4MOA gun.
• Try another upper on your lower with your scope do so and see if the problem follows the scope.
• Stick irons on the 16" and see if the problem follows the upper.
• Get another good shooter to shoot it and see if he/she has the same problem.
• Try a proven load for a 1/9. (ie. 55gr Vmax + 25gr of H335)

[dfletcher]

Allow me to be upfront here, your upper and scope are junk, buy better ones.

If you want a really accurate AR15 upper look into the Rock River Predator. You will be shooting sub inch groups all day long with ease. I've got one and its a real tack driver. A good scope mount like a LaRue LT104 or at least a Burris PERP and a Nikon M223 scope and your good to go.

Rock River upper in stock here.

http://pkfirearms.com/RRA_Stainless_Uppers/204/c

Why is a DPMS junk and Rock River better - what's the difference? I have neither so am not taking a "mine's better than yours" approach.

It seems to me that even an entry level set up, including the scope, ought to do better than 4" at 100 yds - unless something is broken, not properly mounted.

[NewbieDave]

I don't know why everyone automatically thinks it's the scope... a Simmon Classic is cheap scope for sure, but it's not like it's a airsoft scope. I've had cheap Simmons, Redfield & Tasco scopes on hunting rifles for years... dragged through many hunting seasons without issue. YES, it doesn't have all the tacti-cool-mall-ninja features... but it works. As long as it's mounted correctly, a basic cheap scope like this Simmons should be able to handle the recoil impulse of the 223/556 round without issue. Only way to test this is with a good pattern test as I outlined... if it doesn't pass, possible scope issue or mount issue.

As far as people comparing x-brand to y-brand... that's none sense. I've played with Del-Ton/Model-1 uppers that can shoot at 1-2 MOA all day off sandbags... as long as the shooter knows what they are doing.

[xoutxkastx]

Allow me to be upfront here, your upper and scope are junk, buy better ones.

If you want a really accurate AR15 upper look into the Rock River Predator. You will be shooting sub inch groups all day long with easy. A good scope mount like a LaRue LT104 or at least a Burris PERP and a Nikon M223 scope and your good to go.

Rock River upper in stock here.

http://pkfirearms.com/RRA_Stainless_Uppers/204/c

OP can you post a pic of your rifle?


How can you say DPMS is junk? I've owned a few entry level AR like the DPMS and have functioned flawlessly and shot MOA and sometimes sub. I also own a few more expensive rigs like JP enterprises.

Your statement of DPMS being junk does not help the OP out at all. You should state you personal experience why it's junk? While RRA makes some great stuff, RRA is not that much better than DPMS.

OP best bet is to get rid of any human error in shooting. Place your AR on a lead sled. Fire a 3-5 shot group. Doesn't matter if it hits the middle, main concern is checking the grouping. If the grouping looks good 1 MOA - 2 MOA. Look into your rings that is the most likely issue your having. Next I would look into the scope. If you are local I shoot an ASR and Oak Tree and can help you out on your AR. GL brother and let us know how it turns out.

[xoutxkastx]

I don't know why everyone automatically thinks it's the scope... a Simmon Classic is cheap scope for sure, but it's not like it's a airsoft scope. I've had cheap Simmons, Redfield & Tasco scopes on hunting rifles for years... dragged through many hunting seasons without issue. YES, it doesn't have all the tacti-cool-mall-ninja features... but it works. As long as it's mounted correctly, a basic cheap scope like this Simmons should be able to handle the recoil impulse of the 223/556 round without issue. Only way to test this is with a good pattern test as I outlined... if it doesn't pass, possible scope issue or mount issue.

As far as people comparing x-brand to y-brand... that's none sense. I've played with Del-Ton/Model-1 uppers that can shoot at 1-2 MOA all day off sandbags... as long as the shooter knows what they are doing.

I believe this may be the root cause of the issue. I would like to see the human factor removed first.

[crazyucbr]

Not sure what your experience is in shooting is it possible of shooter errors?