Piston dilemma; LWRCi Vs. LMT Vs. Barrett? HELP

[Hungarian_Legionnaire]

The LMT MRP has been the one I prefer because A.) reliable, smooth recoiling piston system B.) quick change barrel options. It's nice to be able to go from 5.56mm to .300BLK with a Seekonk torque wrench.

I always thought the Barrett option was kind of half-assed. They've been really connected with the military acquisitions and back in 2003-05, when there was lots of talk about 6.8SPC and piston systems, they decided "hey, we can do that!" hoping it would translate into a military contract. I applaud their enthusiasm, but the rifle itself is rather...meh.

I have read on AR15 & M4C that the LMT is the softest shooting piston AR anyone has used, I like it but I would like LMT to use a dedicated piston bolt, not just a Mil-Spec bolt with the gas rings removed, I would also like to see the LM8 MRP avaible as a piston operated system, I called LMT & their answer was to but LMT's $693 piston conversion kit, I don't see why LMT can't just make a LM8 with a CQB MRP barrel & use the piston BCG?

The Barrett to me is a bit on the heavy side, I too though that they only made the M468 for Military Contract replacement of the M4, then they didn't do anything with it for a while, since it's been the REC7 & SHOT Show 2012 they have really gotten competitive with their piston AR upgrading the bulky & heavy A.R.M.S quad rail, with a Daniel Defense rail & Ronnie is always looking for the latest lightest rail system, I believe that Barrett actually cares about the REC7 now.

[Hungarian_Legionnaire]

LWRC period! Accurate and reliable as hell. It is little heavy though but not a deal breaker by any means...

The M6A2 is only 7.3 lbs (as is the LMT) & the SPR is much less than that & has a grate sing weight it's very light in the front thanks to the fluted barrel & R.E.P.R style rail, I don't think LWRC's are heavy at all, the lightest piston AR is the Colt LE6040P at 6.9 lbs.

[Hungarian_Legionnaire]

For the criteria you listed, the hk mr556 is your best bet.

It's not on your list but I would give it some thought. Thought to have been rifle used to take out obl by the seals. Well it was actually the 416, but the mr556 is pretty close at half the price for an upper. Can't really get the 416 lower here anyways.

Sold my scar to get one. Funny, no one wants to check out my rifle at the range anymore.... Looks pretty close to all the others now.

I do not have enough experience with any of those fine choices to point in one direction but would think the hk should be in the list ( even though I am not a huge HK fan ).

Let's see....

Hk416 seals
Hk m27 us marines

Mr556 has similar heavy barrel profile to m27. Swap up to a 11" rail and you are good to go. Also, ta11 acog.

Only downsides, In my hands scar and di ar rifles are much more accurate. Not a big fan of the drum sites. Scar sites were very accurate.

Was right behind g36/xm8 in military test in sandy environment. None of the ops original rifles tested at the time.

HK MR556 should be on your list, as others have stated. It fits all your criteria.

I own one and love it. Reliable and plenty accurate. I run an ACOG TA-33 with a piggy back mounted mini red dot.

My only complaint is it is front heavy, compared to my Colt. But that is my only complaint about the MR.

Thanks for mentioning the H&K MR556A1/ 416, for me there are a few things about the H&K MR556 that I dislike i.e.

* Price

* Weight, (Weighing in a almost 9 lbs empty) & has a heavy quad rail with a slower swing weight, compared to lighter piston AR's.

* Barrel finish is more for accuracy, than longevity

* Receiver & rail are taller

* Can't remove upper receiver from lower without a small tool.

It's a reliable piston AR, looks grate, I just wish it were lighter & had the same barrel as the H&K 416.

[HKDoc]

Thanks for mentioning the H&K MR556A1/ 416, for me there are a few things about the H&K MR556 that I dislike i.e.

* Price

* Weight, (Weighing in a almost 9 lbs empty) & has a heavy quad rail with a slower swing weight, compared to lighter piston AR's.

* Barrel finish is more for accuracy, than longevity

* Receiver & rail are taller

* Can't remove upper receiver from lower without a small tool.

It's a reliable piston AR, looks grate, I just wish it were lighter & had the same barrel as the H&K 416.

Very good points. The price of the HK has gone up since its introduction. close to $3000 if you can find one. yes it is front heavy, but I've always liked heavier barrels. It is definitely not chrome lined; there is an interesting discussion on hkpro about whether or not it received a nitrogen treatment. The detente pins take some getting used to. definitely no play between the upper and lower.

Overall, I've been wanting one for a long time and if you didn't guess having the HK mark of quality on the rifle makes me happy.

Since weight is an important concern to you, then perhaps add the scar to your list. It's not quite an AR but very light, accurate, and durable. A vendor here was selling them for $2300. Pretty close to the LWRC.

good luck on your search. Most importantly, you should try the different rifles out at the range to see what you like.

[gat]

I'm happy with my M6A2. It's a little silly the top rail section that holds the front sight removes for cleaning, but I guess it's fine for BUIS. It's a little heavy but not bad for a piston upper. I think it's the first firearm (well, upper) I've owned that didn't have some kind of problem/disappointment, no matter how minor. So far zero wear from carrier tilt.

If I had to do it again I'd consider the LMT (top rail doesn't come off, but I heard it doesn't work well with Wolf if that matters to you) or HK (good experiences with HK in the past, but it's more expensive and heavier).

[jcslone]

LWRC is what MARSOC (Marine Special Operations Command) uses and they are madly in love with their rifles. I had the chance to "play" with one a few months ago and after shooting a mag through it, I almost bought one the same day...they're that good.

[Hungarian_Legionnaire]

I'm happy with my M6A2. It's a little silly the top rail section that holds the front sight removes for cleaning, but I guess it's fine for BUIS. It's a little heavy but not bad for a piston upper. I think it's the first firearm (well, upper) I've owned that didn't have some kind of problem/disappointment, no matter how minor. So far zero wear from carrier tilt.

If I had to do it again I'd consider the LMT (top rail doesn't come off, but I heard it doesn't work well with Wolf if that matters to you) or HK (good experiences with HK in the past, but it's more expensive and heavier).

If given the chance with what you know now about the LWRCi M6A2, would you would get the LMT CQB MRP instead? Both the M6A2 & CQB MRP weigh 7.3 lbs, although I the M6A2's rail is heavier, so the LMT is better balanced (when I haven handled both, one after another). I also like the monolithic upper of the LMT, LWRCi claims that when servicing/ cleaning the op-rod the rail section will return to zero, do you find this to be a fact? I wish LMT coated it's bolt carrier, bolt & fire control group in LWRCi (NiB) or EXO's patented nickel-boron surface conversion, but now that LWRCi supplier will do this process it really isn't an issue if you don't get an LWRC rifle to have the advantage of (NiB).

[kurac]

If given the chance with what you know now about the LWRCi M6A2, would you would get the LMT CQB MRP instead? Both the M6A2 & CQB MRP weigh 7.3 lbs, although I the M6A2's rail is heavier, so the LMT is better balanced (when I haven handled both, one after another). I also like the monolithic upper of the LMT, LWRCi claims that when servicing/ cleaning the op-rod the rail section will return to zero, do you find this to be a fact?

There is a series of pins that align the top rail and it fits pretty tight. I wouldn't consider the iron sights on the SPR precision so I don't think its going to have much effect on your zero if you remove the top section of the rail to access the piston system. My only concern with the removable top section is that if something heavy were to be mounted to it, there is the chance it could work loose.

[Quiet]

FYI.
A modified version of the Colt 6940P is a contendor in the US Army's Individual Carbine Competition (currently in Phase 2 testing).
There's three gas-piston AR type carbines currently in the competition.
Adcor Defense BEAR Elite, Colt Advanced Piston Carbine and H&K HK-416.
The other carbines currently in the competition also use a gas-piston but they are not AR type carbines.
Beretta ARX-160A2, FN FNAC and Remington ACR.

[Hungarian_Legionnaire]

LWRC is what MARSOC (Marine Special Operations Command) uses and they are madly in love with their rifles. I had the chance to "play" with one a few months ago and after shooting a mag through it, I almost bought one the same day...they're that good.

The USMC MARSOC uses LWRCi M6A2's? Like MEU(SOC)/ Force Recon? I have never herd of the Marines using anything other than M4A1's & M16A3 with an ACOG... I do know that the First M6A2's issued were with the 75th Rangers, I don't know how many but 75th Rangers were to take LWRC's M6A2 in to combat. Operational Detachment Dealt & DEA F.A.S.T Team both used the M6A2 in both Iraq & Afghanistan, undergoing some rigorous testing & outperforming the Legacy M4A1 & M16A3's in adverse conditions.

[cfusionpm]

The LWRCi, LMT, Colt & SIG all have proprietary or monolithic quad-rails, so that really is not an issue for me, I like the rails they have, although I do like how the Barrett REC7 has had a number of different quad rails as Barrett upgrades parts & feature on the REC7, I think it started out with an A.R.M.S rail, & now they come with a Daniel Defense rail, which is slimmer, but at SHOT Show 2012 Ronnie said the REC7 was getting a NEW even thinner rail system.

I am aware of the Ruger SR556, but I don't feel comfortable spending over $1K on Rugers 1st AR15/ first AR piston system all in one package. I know 2 friends who bought the Ruger SR556 & the piston is not accessible at all for cleaning/ maintenance (the owners manual says it never needs to be cleaned) also both have extrema cases of carrier tilt, one so much that it has worn threw the threads & snapped the plunger that holds the buffer & spring in place (or it did)...

That's a fair point, and I would love to have an HK or LWRC. Then again, $1,099 sounded a lot better than $2,000-3,000. Mine is just a range toy.

[Massan]

Thanks for mentioning the H&K MR556A1/ 416, for me there are a few things about the H&K MR556 that I dislike i.e.

* Price

* Weight, (Weighing in a almost 9 lbs empty) & has a heavy quad rail with a slower swing weight, compared to lighter piston AR's.

* Barrel finish is more for accuracy, than longevity

* Receiver & rail are taller

* Can't remove upper receiver from lower without a small tool.

It's a reliable piston AR, looks grate, I just wish it were lighter & had the same barrel as the H&K 416.

Price is definitely on the high side, now even more so with the price hike.

Weight can be reduced if you have some barrel work done(ie reprofile to .72) can easily reduce total weight to 7-8lbs

Rail height, all personal preferences. No go if you want to cowitness.

Easily remedied by replacing the pivot/takedown pin with standard pins.

Theres a bunch of people on HKpro that had the barrel cut down and nitrided(ie 416 clone style)

If not a HK, go LWRC. Barrett.. im sure theres a reason why none of the big name trainers mention Barrett as a recommendation.

[gat]

If given the chance with what you know now about the LWRCi M6A2, would you would get the LMT CQB MRP instead? Both the M6A2 & CQB MRP weigh 7.3 lbs, although I the M6A2's rail is heavier, so the LMT is better balanced (when I haven handled both, one after another). I also like the monolithic upper of the LMT, LWRCi claims that when servicing/ cleaning the op-rod the rail section will return to zero, do you find this to be a fact? I wish LMT coated it's bolt carrier, bolt & fire control group in LWRCi (NiB) or EXO's patented nickel-boron surface conversion, but now that LWRCi supplier will do this process it really isn't an issue if you don't get an LWRC rifle to have the advantage of (NiB).

I was originally going to go with LMT but there's no guarantee it will cycle wolf. I felt like the gun should be able to cycle wolf just from a functionality standpoint, but realistically I almost never shoot wolf. In retrospect this seems a little silly, but at the time I suppose the ability to shoot wolf was a lot more important to me.

Are you sure there's a significant balance difference? They both seem to have the same stock, so if the LMT rail is lighter what on the rear is heavier? If the LMT balances significantly better for you I can see that being a deal breaker for LWRC. I often wish my LWRC was lighter but I don't see a practical way without getting rid of the rails (or switching to the M6-SL).

The top rail should return to zero, but I've never shot accurately enough with irons to notice. I use an ACOG so the BUIS are zeroed but I never bother trying to get groups small enough to tell if the sight drifted a few MOA or not. The screws will back out during firing, though, which can be fixed with locktite. I'm no expert marksman but I can shoot ~1MOA with M855.

For reference, here's the parts replacement schedule for LWRC:

Barrel: 20k rounds
Bolt Springs: 10k rounds
Piston Springs, Spring Cup: 3-5k rounds

LWRC recommends a flatwire buffer spring. I don't know the life expectancy (in rounds) of that. I put an LWRC upper on my lower so I can't speak to the FCG coating, but the bolt does stay extremely clean. It's possible you wouldn't need the coating on the LMT if the bolt stays as clean as my LWRC, which is good because I don't know if I'd trust someone to strip and re-coat a BCG. The piston parts didn't get that dirty, but they take a bit of finesse to remove.

At the end of the day I've had zero problems (jams, misfires, broken parts, etc) with my LWRC. It's a little heavy and the top rail needs locktite, but that's all I can find to nit pick. I'd be hesitant to buy anything else again knowing what I know now, but there are advantages to the others that might mean more to you than me (weight, quick change barrel, etc).

[wash]

I don't really understand why someone would spend huge money on a rifle like one of these.

I know they are all very nice but I'm not convinced that they are going to work any better than a DI rifle that you keep well oiled and try not to fill up with sand.

I would rather have a quality $1,000 DI AR with 2,000 rounds of ammo (brass case), carbine course tuition, a bunch of magazines, good optics, a big bottle of lube and maybe some tactical nylon.

You can get all that for the price of some of the rifles suggested.

You might not be the envy of the gun range or good to go in a zero-visibility sand storm but I think you get more for your money with my option.

[Striker]

I'm having an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT time deciding between 3 or 4 piston AR's the contenders are:

LWRCi M6A2/ M6A2 SPR

LMT CQB MRP

Barrett REC7 (in 5.56)

Sig Sauer 516 (I've herd their Op-rods bend, I don't know if this is still an issue, or if it ever was?)

And possibly...

Colt LE6940P (I don't like how the BCG is not a solid one piece design)

I've narrowed it down to these piston AR's, I know that these are all the top tier AR manufactures with the quality, fit & finish in the AR market but, I want to make sure I purchase the right Piston Operated AR.

Things that are important to me are:

* Track Record.

* Carrier Tilt.

* Accuracy.

* Who's adopted i.e. Military Units, Gov. & LE Agencies?

* Torture tested, durability/ Proven in combat with Operators in the Middle East.

* Which one has experienced the most problems, been sent back to the manufacture the most.

And YOU'RE personal experiences (if YOU have one of the AR mentioned), What made YOU chose the piston AR you have and
why? What failures (if any) have YOU experienced, what are the Pros & Cons of YOU'RE AR (if any)?

I appreciate Any information to help me make up my mind and settle on either the LWRCi, LMT, Barrett, Colt or Sig. I have been a member of CG for a long time now & trust other members opinions, I just don't want to make a decision that I'll regret. + I am also getting the Tavor TAR-21 (which is piston operated as well as a bullpup)

Thanks.

HK416 is by far the most proven piston AR out there. You don't seem to like it or the MR556 so, LWRC has done pretty well in 5.56. I remember reading the REPR had problems, but the 5.56 rifles, at least recent ones, have been fine. I shot an A3 awhile back, nice gun.

If the Colt is the same gun as the one they submitted for the military carbine trials, I read that it works really well. Other than that, you're not going to get much information on the rifle as not many have had a chance to run it.

To me right now, HK is best choice, but LWRC would be next and I would have to wait and see on the Colt as it's really new, but could be an excellent choice as well. In fact I don't think any of them are bad choices, I just think these are the better ones.