Legality of M16 bolt carrier in an OLL

[gun toting monkeyboy]

QUIT NECROPOSTING!!! This is a freakin ancient thread. Let it die already!!!

[reidnez]

The way I interpret it, and with my understanding of how an M16 works, not having the auto bolt carrier will prevent any chance of the weapon firing automatically if other M16 parts are installed and with "manipultion of the selector or removal of the disconnector."

Basically, no auto carrier, no chance of full auto regardless of other parts.

If you don't have any of the other auto parts you have nothing to worry about.

That is the way I interpret it as well. You're correct, need an M16 bolt carrier and fire control group (or drop-in auto sear, or lightning link) in order to have a full-auto weapon. The BCG trips the auto sear. Since the full-auto FCG, or any other part which makes the weapon function full-auto, are by themselves considered machine guns by BATFE, and since an M16 FCG won't even fit an unmodified AR15 receiver by design, I really don't think they're worried about the bolt carrier in an otherwise-vanilla weapon. The full-auto FCG's, M16 lowers, drop-in auto sears, and lightning links which were made pre-1986 are transferable like any other machine gun (in free states), and of course command many thousands of dollars.

As Mr. Wiese noted, several manufacturers sell complete rifles with M16 BCG's installed and I haven't heard of G-men storming their factories. It's kosher, pure and simple.

[ArinX]

amen to that its not to hard to grind out the back section to keep you out of trouble




also olympic arms grinds theirs a bit less
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?opt...d=29&Itemid=42

Thanks for the picture, just checked both my AR's and my Beowulf upper came with a m16 bolt.

[anniepoks]

is it merely the auto sear with combination of disconnector, M16 BCG, etc. that makes it full auto restricted right? in fact simple possession or use of M16 BCG on an AR15 is not illegal. IT IS though the auto sear that is stamped that makes it more illegal even to own (as an MG component) rather than the M16 BCG alone. am i right?

[skyungjae]

Several companies will and do sell FA BCGs to California citizens.
Some of them are:

- LMT
- BCM
- DD

I wasn't asking where I could get a full auto bcg. I was more concerned why certain companies won't ship them here because they say it's illegal in CA. Do these companies have their own interpretation of the law? I suppose I would have to ask them directly where they're getting their information.

[shark92651]

I wasn't asking where I could get a full auto bcg. I was more concerned why certain companies won't ship them here because they say it's illegal in CA. Do these companies have their own interpretation of the law? I suppose I would have to ask them directly where they're getting their information.

Lots of misinformation out there, particularity related to CA gun laws. Company's that do understand ship them here no problem (DD, LMT, etc...). There are other companies that insist on being completely illiterate regarding CA gun laws and those companies many times won't ship in completely legal products such as flash-hiders and pistol grips for fear of violating some FUD they heard about CA AW laws they are too lazy to try to understand, not going to name any names though. (cough, cough, cheaper than ****, cough)

[motorhead]

For give me if i am wrong, but does'nt the real M-16 have a slot/nub that is in the bolt carrier that when it goes in to battery it trips the sear making it a auto part. I know with the ak and g3 on the bolt carriers there are those slots which should be ground down. I know its not mandatory to do this, but it could save your neck while standing infront of a judge.

no one does this on aks. there is no ruling on this i know of. if you can find one let me know. it must be ak specific, not sten or m-16. on the ak, f/a is determined by the 3rd reciever hole (autosear) and the slotted rail. without those it is not "readily convertable" to a machinegun.

[reidnez]

Originally Posted by Ak47owner View Post
For give me if i am wrong, but does'nt the real M-16 have a slot/nub that is in the bolt carrier that when it goes in to battery it trips the sear making it a auto part. I know with the ak and g3 on the bolt carriers there are those slots which should be ground down. I know its not mandatory to do this, but it could save your neck while standing infront of a judge.

Not exactly...it is the rear, cylindrical section of the bolt carrier which trips the sear as the BCG comes forward into battery. Not the rearmost section, but the rear wall of the "gap" that you see in the carrier, if that makes sense. If you mill that away, there is nothing to trip the sear. Here's a comparison image. The bottom is an M16 carrier, the top two are AR15 variants. Note that the un-shrouded firing pin is a separate animal, and most newer BCG's are shrouded regardless of the overall design of the carrier.

[skyungjae]

"John
I can’t site the case law but we went with the opinion of Bushmaster’s legal dept.
According to them Cal. law states that any full auto part is illegal.

Cory O'Connors
Technical Development
Osprey Defense
7306 245th Street East
Myakka City, Florida 34251
1-877-271-5616 ext #108"

This is the response from Osprey Defense.

[bwiese]

"John
I can’t site the case law but we went with the opinion of Bushmaster’s legal dept.
According to them Cal. law states that any full auto part is illegal.

Cory O'Connors
Technical Development
Osprey Defense
7306 245th Street East
Myakka City, Florida 34251
1-877-271-5616 ext #108"

This is the response from Osprey Defense.

Why did you quote the above? WTF do they know?

FL folks - who can't even friggin' spell ("site" instead of "cite") - discussing CA laws based on info from a non-CA vendor?
Wow, great info.

Yes, a truly full-auto-only part should not be acquired or possessed in CA.

Obviously the M16 BCA is not F/A only. In fact an M16 BCA is neither necessary nor sufficient for F/A operation -- M16s can go F/A (maybe not well) without an M16 BCA.

One should NOT, however, acquire or possess F/A-only fire-control parts in CA - even if you don't own a lower receiver. 12200PC is a beeyotch, and makes these individual FA-only parts regardable as MGs.

What you SHOULD do is ensure that your AR doesn't double, etc. regardless of whose/what types of parts are installed.
Crappy AR parts can cause this.


Bottom line to LE: I'm a way careful guy and have M16 carriers in some of my ARs. Please arrest me for a non-crime.
(Remember, the DA or DOJ will come up with an "expert" like Iggy. )

[Squashua]

o.k i looked it up on atf website. you can run the carrier , but if you have any other full auto parts even if there not installed it shows intent even if you didn't intend to do so. so i appoligize i was wrong. now will a semi auto carrier run in a full auto?

No. a m16 would need the m16 bolt.., the extra metal on the m16 bolt is what would make the sear trip and release the hammer.. the ar15 bolt wouldnt.

[Sniper3142]

One more time for the slow folks...

A Full Auto Bolt Carrier Group (FA BCG) is LEGAL (even in this @#$! up state).

Several KNOWLEDGABLE companies sell them to all 50 states (LMT and Daniel Defense are 2 I know of for sure).

And why would anyone (ATF, LEO, Poppa Smurf) be looking at your BCG in the first place?!?

[abusalim81]

WTH happend to this thread?

There is a concrete evidence that M16 Bolt carriers by themselves, only, are perfectly legal... What ever you do do not put any other M16 parts in the lower!

Half of the AR-15 manuf. put M16 bolt carriers in the rifles they sell! They would not do that unless it was legal, period, end of argument!

M16 FULL AUTO BOLT CARRIER 100% LEGAL!

GET OVER IT!

P.S. BUSHMASTER MISONFORMS PEOPLE TO PROTECT THE STUPID!

[xxINKxx]

Written by Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE), Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch

...M16 bolt carriers are not designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun and are not any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled. Further, an M16 bolt carrier is not a firearm as defined in the GCA or a machinegun as defined in the NFA. An M16 bolt carrier is simply a machinegun part and as such its domestic sale and possession is unregulated under the Federal firearms laws. It is not unlawful to utilize a M16 machinegun bolt carrier in a semiautomatic AR15 type rifle.

Yes they are legal, since the BCG does not make a gun go full auto, and is not a firearm.

[adrad]

Found this thread to be very helpful. I don't think this post will ever rip , its full of a lot good info.

btw when you say the ar doubles, I'm assuming that means fires more then one round with a single pull of the trigger , does this mean like a slam fire like a malfunctioning sks or something completely different ? come to think of it this may be a little off topic but would a slam firing sks or any malfunctioning rifle be considered a MG