Having trouble deciding on what caliber to buy for target/long range

[chicoredneck]

Try using a ballistics calculator online to compare the perfomance of different calibers and bullets.

JBM is a great and accurate ballistics program free online.

http://www.jbmballistics.com/

Keep in mind that a ballistics table does not show you recoil force, ammo/bullet avilability or cost.

To compare the recoil of many common cartridges in common rifle weights you can use this website:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Keep in mind that as the weight of a rifle goes up the felt recoil is reduced.

To compare factory cost of ammo you can try any number of retailers:

http://www.midwayusa.com/ammunition

http://www.hornady.com/ammunition

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/CategoryListing.aspx?catid=75

http://store.thehuntingshack.com/ammunition.aspx

http://www.cabelas.com/rifle-ammo.shtml

http://www.black-hills.com/

http://www.ammoman.com/

This is just a very small cross section of a number of different ammo retailers.

Hope this helps!

[chicoredneck]

One more note:

If you are planning on precision long range shooting you will probably need to reload to see the greatest accuracy achievable in your rifle.

[Don29palms]

For accuracy reloading is mandatory.

[DirtRacer151]

Caliber is one thing. Most factory rifles can't shoot the better high BC bullets though. Please when you decide on a caliber make sure you research twist rates and bullets. There's a reason most people that shoot odd ball calibers have custom barrels installed to shoot LR. its not just for the accuracy... Try finding a factory 243 rifle that will shoot 115 DTACS with a 1-7.5tw barrel. The lighter 243 bullets that will stabilize in factory barrels don't offer much benefit over 308s. Do your homework guys...

[Dhena81]

I'd buy a rifle that shoots heat seeking bullets that cook what you shoot at.

[Fjold]

Another thing to consider is that with a fast twist barrel shooting the high BC bullets you need to look at magazine length to make sure that you can load the long bullets to the COA length necessary.

[chicoredneck]

all good advice.

The rifle and barrel is just as important as the ammo and vise versa. Something many beginners fail to recognize in their rifles is the importance of a stable and consitant action/barrel to stock fit.

Even with a bolt action rifle that has a free floated barrel it can still be inconsitent if the action is not secure in the stock. Same holds true with Ar's. If you have a loose fit between the upper and lower reciever you can have flyers and inconsitent groups.

[Knife Edge]

all good advice.

The rifle and barrel is just as important as the ammo and vise versa. Something many beginners fail to recognize in their rifles is the importance of a stable and consitant action/barrel to stock fit.

Even with a bolt action rifle that has a free floated barrel it can still be inconsitent if the action is not secure in the stock. Same holds true with Ar's. If you have a loose fit between the upper and lower reciever you can have flyers and inconsitent groups.

Installed a wedge in my Varminter the occasional flyer went away and accuracy doubled. The BM upper and spikes lower was a sloppy fit, may do the JB weld mod to tighten it up.

Good advice.

[BrianRodela]

I always tell friends when they inquire what they should buy is look at the range and places they intend on shooting the most and buy accordingly. I see all too often some very nice rifles that never make it to a long range and end up punching holes in paper at a mere 100 yards! If you go to a 1000 yard range on a regular basis, then right on, knock em down. I myself shoot high power and enjoy the 223. with a 77 grain BTHP, 600 yards isn't too difficult and the price is right. Plus if I am only at a 100 yard range, I can still enjoy it. 308 is also a very popular calibre and it is pretty nice being able to buy off the shelf if you need something in a hurry. As said above, chicoredneck brings up a great point about reloading. Whatever you choose, I think you'll find plenty of help here to help!

[Dhena81]

all good advice.

The rifle and barrel is just as important as the ammo and vise versa. Something many beginners fail to recognize in their rifles is the importance of a stable and consitant action/barrel to stock fit.

Even with a bolt action rifle that has a free floated barrel it can still be inconsitent if the action is not secure in the stock. Same holds true with Ar's. If you have a loose fit between the upper and lower reciever you can have flyers and inconsitent groups.

Do you have any proof of this I really don't really subscribe to this I know there are 2 camps of thought but again does anyone have proof of this.

[chicoredneck]

Do you have any proof of this I really don't really subscribe to this I know there are 2 camps of thought but again does anyone have proof of this.

Yes, and here's why:

As the rifle fires and the recoil process starts the upper half of the reciver recoils back into the lower half. The recoil begins before the bullet has exited the barrel. This motion can cause the upper half of the reciver to either rock side to side or to a lesser extent, vertically. What happens is that if you do not hold or rest the rifle in the same exact position every time the amount of rock and roll (lol) can vary between each shot, causing the direction of your barrel to change very slightly. This very small change in barrel position can turn into a very large shift in impact the further you are shooting. At 100 yards it might not make that much of a difference however, at 500 yards you will be 5 times off of what you were at 100 yards.

For most practical situations such as most hunting and general plinking the slop will detract little unless there is an extreme amount. Many times the ammo being utilized in these scenarios is not capable of producing enough consitency to even notice the difference a loose fitting AR will have on a rifles accuracy.

For those shooting target matches or any long range precision shooting the difference between a loose fitting upper/lower and a tight one can be very noticable.

This also touches on the importance of having a consitent hold for your rifle to achive even greater accuracy. Rarely talked about is the effects of recoil on a persons body and how it can effect the direction of your barrel. For example, if you are shooting prone and the rifle recoils directly into your shoulder in a straight line with your body you will be effecting the rifles recoil and barrel direction by it's reaction with your shoulder and grip on the rifle. Now, if you turn your body slightly and now the rifle is pointing at a slight angle to your shoulder the rifle will recoil in a slightly different manner causing the barrel direction to change slightly. If shooting under 300-400 yards there may be no noticable differeance in your bullets impact point. At 700 yards there may be a noticable difference and at 1000 yards there may be a significant change in the bullets impact point. These changes in impact may be subtle or very noticable depending on the recoil of the rifle, the speed at which the bullet is able to exit the barrel, the quality of your ammo, and the shooters own physical reaction to recoil forces, among other variables.

[chicoredneck]

Do you have any proof of this I really don't really subscribe to this I know there are 2 camps of thought but again does anyone have proof of this.

I have personally noticed the difference in my own AR's. An accuwedge actually can make a difference as can tension screws. The best solution may be to bed the lower reciver to the upper. Sorry, I don't have any pictures for referance, but you can think of a lower reciver as the stock of a bolt gun and the upper reciver as the action that needs secured. They act and effect accuracy in a similar manner.

[phish]

I've been shooting highpower service rifle for almost 7 years with a loosy-goosy upper to lower fit. I've popped more than my fair share of spotter spindles at 200 yards with iron sights in NRAHighpowershooter's matches at Chabot. I don't buy it.

[chicoredneck]

I've been shooting highpower service rifle for almost 7 years with a loosy-goosy upper to lower fit. I've popped more than my fair share of spotter spindles at 200 yards with iron sights in NRAHighpowershooter's matches at Chabot. I don't buy it.

Milage may vary, but the people winning the long range maches have tight fitting AR's. At close range, as you stated 200 yards, there may be little to no noticable difference. I am talking long range shooting with high end precision ammunition, scopes, and rifles all designed for the purpose. Physics can't be beat and what I posted above is what happens when you shoot. If you have a loose fitting AR and shoot it the exact same all the time and the rifle effects the movement of your upper reciver the same way consitently then theroretically a loose fitting rifle can be just as accurate as a tight fitting one. Reality says otherwise.

I am talking about a very minute change in many cases, in others a significant one.

[a1fabweld]

If you're new to LR shooting, start with a .308. When you get it right with that, then go to something bigger/better.