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LR-308 failure to feed

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  • captbilly
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2010
    • 836

    LR-308 failure to feed

    I built an LR-308 on a CMMG lower. I got the complete upper from Midway, put it on the CMMG lower with an A2 stock (the regular non-collapsable stock) with standard buffer tube. I used the buffer and spring that is SUPPOSED to be the correct one for an LR-308. The upper is a 24 inch stainless steel bull barrel, flat top, no ejection port cover, no forward assist. I also installed a JARD 2 pound single stage trigger.

    So I took it to the range to test and sight in the scope. I first loaded a single round in the MAGPUL magazine, in case the trigger caused a double fire or fully auto. Rifle shot fine. Then I loaded 2 rounds, shot fine again. Then loaded 10 rounds and shot one more to finish a group, shot fine. I adjusted the scope and started shooting again but the rifle would jam every 2-4 rounds. It was always a failure to feed that caused the jam. I would find a round partially stripped from the magazine but not properly fed into the chamber. The rifle always ejected properly and every chambered round fired properly.

    When I look at a cartridge that didn't feed properly it looks like it got scraped by the bolt rather then pushed by the bolt. The side of the cartridge that was next to the bolt is badly scratched, sometimes even dented, but the bolt is on top of the cartridge rather than behind it as it should be. If I manually cycle the bolt it always feeds fine, it only has trouble when the gas system is cycling the bolt.

    As many people have said about the DPMS upper, it seems very tight. The bolt head is much harder to turn in the bolt carrier than the one in my new Rock River .223 upper. The bolt carrier on the LR-308 doesn't hang up anywhere when I cycle it manually but it moves with much more friction than the one on my Rock River.

    So my questions are these: Is it possible that excessive friction on a new LR-308 would cause the gas system to not push the bolt carrier all the way back, and therefor not properly pick up the next cartridge? Would having the wrong buffer or spring (as in I possibly have a buffer and/or buffer spring from an AR-15) cause the bolt carrier to not go all the way back? How would I know if I have the wrong buffer or spring? If the cause of the incomplete cycling is due to excessive friction will that get better over time? Am I completely on the wrong track here? Could the problem just be a few lousy magazines?

    One last thing. I tried three different kinds of ammo: Some mil surplus 150 grain (I believe it is Prvi Partizan), some Federal 168 grain Match ammo (says on the box that it is good for M1A) and some Prvi Partizan 168 grain hollow point boat tail match ammo. All of these had the same issue, failure to feed with the bolt laying on top of the un-fed cartridge.
  • #2
    Stockton
    Vendor/Retailer
    • Oct 2007
    • 1316

    A friend of mine just went through the same thing you described. His problem was his gas hole diameter was too small and had to be opened up. Issue completely resolved. He did however go through a few steps prior to finding that out....used different mags, readjusted gas block, new spring, different ammo, and lots of lube. Not saying this is what is causing yours.... just a possible answer to your malfunctions. Good luck!
    http://youtu.be/7Ii2kyQP-Is

    Comment

    • #3
      Hoop
      Ready fo HILLARY!!
      • Apr 2007
      • 11534

      Mine did that when the ammunition had a "light" powder charge. Make sure you have the right buffer and spring (I think the dpms 308 A2 buffer is a bit smaller than a standard a2 buffer and the spring is an inch longer) and then try another mag and maybe some different ammo.

      Also, the dpms 308s like lots of CLP lube.

      Comment

      • #4
        Nathan Krynn
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 2107

        The buffers should be 3/4" shorter then .223 buffers. Having a .223 buffer will not allow it to feed.

        Try a different mag first then go from there.
        Nathan
        Tactical Machining
        1270 Biscayne Blvd
        Deland, FL 32724
        Phone 386-490-4464
        fax 386-490-4890

        Comment

        • #5
          captbilly
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2010
          • 836

          I used three different mags, though all MAGPUL 20 round with a block to force them to 10 rounds only, as well as 3 different types of ammo.

          I really hope it is not the gas system because my whole reason for going with a complete upper rather than an upper receiver and barrel and gas block and tube, etc. etc., was that I didn't want to have to get involved with assembling an upper. How difficult is it to remove the gas block to check the size of the gas port? Just remove a screw or pin and pull it off, or is there some sealant that I will have to fight to get off the block? How do I find out the proper size of the gas port? so that I can check it?

          I really appreciate the help by the way. I am pretty good with figuring out how things work (I am a design engineer and physicist) but I have only built two AR style rifles and put a total of less than 100 rounds through both of them so far, so am a very very far from really understanding the whole system yet.

          Comment

          • #6
            problemchild
            Banned
            • Oct 2005
            • 6959

            Could be the magpul mag if thats what you are using. They block them off to load as rounds 11-20 not 0-10 and its very stiff. One of my magpul mags is causing me issues. Try a true 10rd mag and see what happens. Also look at the feedramps and see whaere the "marks" from the bullet tips are hitting. If the marks are below the feed ramp you have a problem.

            Comment

            • #7
              jkasandiego
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2007
              • 553

              Check the gas block for a gas leak, if carbon is visible ,you have a gas leak.
              We might have same problem.
              Seek Perfection of character, be faithful, endeavour, respect others and refrain from violent behaviour
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              • #8
                captbilly
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2010
                • 836

                Originally posted by problemchild
                Could be the magpul mag if thats what you are using. They block them off to load as rounds 11-20 not 0-10 and its very stiff. One of my magpul mags is causing me issues. Try a true 10rd mag and see what happens. Also look at the feedramps and see whaere the "marks" from the bullet tips are hitting. If the marks are below the feed ramp you have a problem.
                I will see if I can find a true 10 round mag but the people I spoke to when I got the MAGPUL mags seemed to feel that the 10 round mags are much less reliable than the MAGPUL. The bullets are definitely hitting the feed ramps but the bolt seems to be riding on top of, rather then behind, the cartridge case so the cartridge cannot go up into the chamber.

                Comment

                • #9
                  captbilly
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 836

                  Originally posted by jkasandiego
                  Check the gas block for a gas leak, if carbon is visible ,you have a gas leak.
                  We might have same problem.
                  I don't seem to have a leak in the gas block, but strangely enough I defintiely do have a gas leak on my Rock River .223 AR-15 and that doesn't seem to cause any problems at all in that rifle. When I look at how these gas blocks work I don't actually see how they could not leak somewhat. They are only pushed onto the barrel and then pinned in place. There doesn't seem to be any way to tighten the gas block so that it forms any sort of positive seal against the barrel. In my line of work (designing machinery and such) I would never expect a simple slide on bock to hold back many thousands of PSI of hot gas. I suspect that gas leaks are expected and normal, but if someone knows otherwise let me know so I can try to fix my other AR.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    semiautosniper
                    Member
                    • Jul 2009
                    • 141

                    I had the exact problem as you but I was using DPMS 10 rd mags. Apparently, C-product 10 rd mag will solve this misfeeding problem. Also a rear tension pin will also solve your problem by tightening up the upper and lower receivers. The reason that this type of misfeeding occurs is because there is a slight gap between the upper and lower receiver and the bolt is not quite catching the next round but instead rides over it and causing the nasty scratch on the ammo. C-Product mag has a slightly elevated feeding lip, which allows the bolt to catch the ammo. The rear tensioning pin pulls the upper and lower further together to allow the bolt to catch the next round... yes, a few milimeters can cause this problem.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      killshot44
                      Veteran Member
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 4072

                      Sad to say but I've seen this before. For some reason thet platform is really finicky about the magazine/lower fitment. In every case I've seen personally, the problem was rectified by using a different maker's magazines.

                      Oddly, too, that sometimes the PMAGs were the problem, sometimes the cure...

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        bjl333
                        C3 Contributor
                        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                        • Dec 2009
                        • 7010

                        This may sound silly. When you load the magazine, did you push the rounds to the back of the mag?? If the rounds are sitting close to the front of the mag it might hang up in the mag, causing what you discribe.
                        Wanna learn to shoot SKEET? I am here to introduce all shooters to the sport of SKEET Shooting ....
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                        • #13
                          Ordnance1
                          Member
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 417

                          I believe the problem is a combination of the magazines you are using and the fitment of the upper receiver to the lower. I have a Fulton Armories .308 lower that I matched to a DPMS SASS upper. The Fulton lower is machined to the exact specifications as the DPMS Panther lowers and so fits the DPMS uppers beautifully. I built it as a featureless model and use a couple of old DPMS 20 round steel magazines and have never had a fail to feed issue. You might try getting some of the C-Products 10 round magazines as the feed lips are identical to the DPMS magazines. I also agree with semiautosniper that a rear tensioning pin is in order to close the small gap between the upper and lover. I am not sure what CMMG's specifications are for their .308 lowers but I did thoroughly research the Fulton lower before I bought it to compare specifications as I had called DPMS and they had advised that different manufacturer's lower specifications can vary compared with others and that it was best to keep the upper and lower matched if possible. Anyway, hope this helps solve the problem.

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                          • #14
                            IsaacGlass
                            Veteran Member
                            • Apr 2009
                            • 2591

                            Magpul blocked mag might be too tight, try 9 rounds instead.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              captbilly
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 836

                              It had failures to feed with every amount of ammo

                              Originally posted by IsaacGlass
                              Magpul blocked mag might be too tight, try 9 rounds instead.
                              I had failures to feed not just with the first round out of ten but also with 9, 8, 7, 6, etc. remaining in the magazine.

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