AR Style 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel?

[shyfireman]

Come on people... The forum is suppose to be a positive one. Lets not compare lengths here. I can see everyones points. ARs (semi-autos) have their place. Shot to shot acquisition with a semi-auto is a bit better than a bolt, and I completely see Mr Rauschs' point of a bolt gun. You dont need a lot of ammo and shooting when you have good shot placement. I think I also just wanted to hunt with my AR but in California, hunting with a small 223 caliber is illegal for deer (per Fish/Game). I kind of wanted the lightness of the AR but with the kick of a high caliber bolt. When hunting pigs, I seem to be up and down canyons and hills a lot more than while hunting deer, so the AR would be nice for that. You guys have all been great in presenting different opinions. It gives a lot of foresight and background in what you're all familiar with. Im new to the AR world here and the negative and positives both help. Thanks

[k1dude]

but in California, hunting with a small 223 caliber is illegal for deer (per Fish/Game).

I don't believe there are caliber restrictions in California using .223 for deer. You can use a .223 for deer if you want. But that's another topic altogether. I personally think .223 is fine for our small Blacktail if you're an experienced hunter. For pig (other than Javelina) I'd definitely want a bigger caliber.

[Rogu3]

If you want an eye-opening experience, buy a laser rangefinder.
Drive around with it.
Every time you are at a signal, start ranging things and note the distances.
Then start walking around in the field and range things with it.
You should do this when you are scouting a potential hunting area.

I sorta do this, but with mil-dots, more fun that way too.

[Sick Boy]

I am using my 6.8 AR with a 20" Bison Armory barrel this year and the new load I am using is the new bullet from Barnes 95gr TTSX with 29.5gr of 10x and I am getting around 3000 FPS muzzle velocity out of it. It's pretty flat out to a little over 300 yards and while it has taken some hog it's not deer season here yet.

Nice, I have a 16" barrel from Ben at Bison Armory on my AR and a few boxes of the Double Tap Barnes 95gr TTSXs as well, hoping for a hog hunt later this year.

Bill Wilson (Wilson Combat) and a few other guys with hog ranches have been putting the 95gr TTSxs through it's paces for Barnes before they went on sale and they have been retaining 95-97% of their weight and been expanding from about 0.50-0.60".

And ita pretty damned accurate to boot!

[wash]

First thing, not all 6.8 SPC's are created equal.

If you make sure you get an SPC II chamber with a 1 in 11" twist, you get much better performance than if you make the mistake of getting a SPC with 1 in 9.5" twist.

When grendel fans compare their cartridge to 6.8 SPC, they always use outdated information...

With the best ammo 6.8 SPC has an energy advantage from the muzzle out to about 300 yards when both the 6.8 SPC and Grendel start falling below the amount of energy required for a consistent clean kill on deer sized game.

The advantage is bigger when barrel lengths are short, 6.8 was designed for 16" barrels and people get the most out of it with hand loads in a 20" barrel. You need a 24" barrel to get the most out of a grendel.

Past 300 yards the SPC velocity falls off faster than the grendel and the grendel does have higer B.C. bullets that buck the wind better for really long range shooting but that advantage is not really useable unless you're hunting paper or people.

6.8 SPC has the advantages of better magazines, more factory loaded ammo available and no one is trying to create a monopoly on 6.8 SPC uppers.

Since grendel's advantage lies out where I wouldn't really use it, I chose 6.8 SPC.

I haven't taken it out hunting yet but the animals others have taken are impressive, check out 68forum for pictures.

The one real disadvantage for the 6.8 is bullet sellection, there are a handfull that work, while I hear grendel has dozens. Luckily that handful for the 6.8 work pretty well, from 85 grain solids to 115 grain ball, with more bullets being developed all the time.

p.s. if I wanted a real wildcat AR to hand load for, I would try 6*42, a cat created by necking down the 6.8 to 6mm. It can use the good 6.8 SPC magazines and all of the high B.C. bullets from the 6mm PPC at very high velocity.

[ar15barrels]

The one real disadvantage for the 6.8 is bullet sellection, there are a handfull that work, while I hear grendel has dozens. Luckily that handful for the 6.8 work pretty well, from 85 grain solids to 115 grain ball, with more bullets being developed all the time.

There are only a few 6.5 bullets that are consistently used for long distance shooting.
123 scenar, 139 scenar, 123smk and 142smk.
There are of course others, but these are the standby's.

[sd_shooter]

The advantage is bigger when barrel lengths are short, 6.8 was designed for 16" barrels and people get the most out of it with hand loads in a 20" barrel. You need a 24" barrel to get the most out of a grendel.

Really? I thought Bill Alexander's favorite barrel length was 18" (read somewhere on the Grendel forums.)
(Google confirms that many other people think this too, but I don't have a better reference.)

[ar15barrels]

Really? I thought Bill Alexander's favorite barrel length was 18" (read somewhere on the Grendel forums.)
(Google confirms that many other people think this too, but I don't have a better reference.)

Though Bill Alexander's favorite length is 18", you are not getting the most out of the cartridge at that length.
Barrel length is ALWAYS a compromise.
Short is handy.
Long is fast. (faster is better)
Pick your poison.

[C.G.]

6.8 SPC has the advantages of better magazines,

Fairly good write up except for this.
6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC magazines are the same, only the markings differ.

[ar15barrels]

Fairly good write up except for this.
6.5 Grendel and 6.8SPC magazines are the same, only the markings differ.

He should have said that 6.8SPC has the better cartridge shape, not magazines.

[C.G.]

He should have said that 6.8SPC has the better cartridge shape, not magazines.

That makes sense now, I did not have my read between the lines glasses on earlier.

[Rogu3]

I doubt you'd get much going from 20/22" to a 24" with these cartridges' case capacity.

[shyfireman]

First thing, not all 6.8 SPC's are created equal.

If you make sure you get an SPC II chamber with a 1 in 11" twist, you get much better performance than if you make the mistake of getting a SPC with 1 in 9.5" twist.

When grendel fans compare their cartridge to 6.8 SPC, they always use outdated information...

With the best ammo 6.8 SPC has an energy advantage from the muzzle out to about 300 yards when both the 6.8 SPC and Grendel start falling below the amount of energy required for a consistent clean kill on deer sized game.

The advantage is bigger when barrel lengths are short, 6.8 was designed for 16" barrels and people get the most out of it with hand loads in a 20" barrel. You need a 24" barrel to get the most out of a grendel.

Past 300 yards the SPC velocity falls off faster than the grendel and the grendel does have higer B.C. bullets that buck the wind better for really long range shooting but that advantage is not really useable unless you're hunting paper or people.

6.8 SPC has the advantages of better magazines, more factory loaded ammo available and no one is trying to create a monopoly on 6.8 SPC uppers.

Since grendel's advantage lies out where I wouldn't really use it, I chose 6.8 SPC.

I haven't taken it out hunting yet but the animals others have taken are impressive, check out 68forum for pictures.

The one real disadvantage for the 6.8 is bullet sellection, there are a handfull that work, while I hear grendel has dozens. Luckily that handful for the 6.8 work pretty well, from 85 grain solids to 115 grain ball, with more bullets being developed all the time.

p.s. if I wanted a real wildcat AR to hand load for, I would try 6*42, a cat created by necking down the 6.8 to 6mm. It can use the good 6.8 SPC magazines and all of the high B.C. bullets from the 6mm PPC at very high velocity.

Thanks for the information. I appreciate all the time and knowledge that you guys have put into your responses. It really helps with the ideas of where I want to go. I think I'll be doing a lot more thinking on this one. I checked into the other forums on both and most seemed to be a bit out dated with information, as you so described. Everything changes so fast and while people are coming out with better configurations I could really see why they are outdated. Anyways, I wanted to say thanks. Dont really want any valuable responses to go unnoticed. You provided a pretty good amount of information on both. I liked that you and Randall Rausch didnt seemed swayed by either one but seemed to speak on the different aspects and characteristics expected from each. Thanks

[ar15barrels]

I liked that you and Randall Rausch didnt seemed swayed by either one but seemed to speak on the different aspects and characteristics expected from each.

I have both.
I don't really shoot either one of them though.
I'd rather shoot a 243...

[DannyInSoCal]

I did the same comparison - I went with the 6.8 Spec II 1/11.

#1 reason: Cost. I found a brand new complete upper for $525. Ammo is cheaper also.
#2 reason: Shooting. My skill set maxes out around 350 yards anyway. Going further just means I miss by a wider margin. ( At least I'm honest... )
#3 reason: This article helped me decide: http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Misc_Do...s_2008NDIA.pdf ( This is from 2008 and the newer uppers and cartridges are even better now. )

Build what you want - If you dont like it sell it - And build the other one...

Thats what I'm doing...

Thanx, DF