Anyone ever messed with the idea of a tube fed 9mm AR?

[dstiltner]

An thing to cosider, if the hole into the magazine well has to drill lower to clear the barrel nut a wider tube could be used. Since the tube is wider, the rounds bould be in spiral similar to the calico guns (don't know exactly how they accomplish since I have never seen the internals). The next thing to work out would be the elevator to move the round high enough to be chambered.

[dstiltner]

Moving along with the wide tube, it could be 40mm tube just like the M203. I mocked this up simply by removing the trigger from the M203.

[dstiltner]

Here is a cutaway of the Calico magazine.



The image is from http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg57-e.htm.

[Jim McCoin]

Center fire rifles with tubular magazines normaly fire flat nose bullets, having a pointed nose bullet sitting behind the primer of the bullet in front could get interesting.

With rimfires it makes no differance, the 1860 Henry, sort of the begining of tubular magazines was a rimfire rifle.

I think that's why you'll never see a tubular fed AR 15.

Jim

[dstiltner]

Center fire rifles with tubular magazines normaly fire flat nose bullets, having a pointed nose bullet sitting behind the primer of the bullet in front could get interesting.

With rimfires it makes no differance, the 1860 Henry, sort of the begining of tubular magazines was a rimfire rifle.

I think that's why you'll never see a tubular fed AR 15.

Jim

With the spiral feed tube like the Calico, this would not be problem.

[grammaton76]

I want one of those lever actions, simply because they're a fascinatingly neat design. Most of my gun acquisitions start off with me going, "Ooo, that looks intricate." Actually, I was wanting one of those shortly before the OLL thing hit.

On the tube front, I will point out that there's no reason you couldn't look into a tube coming through the buttstock instead of up front. That's how my grandfather's 22 tube fed rifle worked, and it would simplify reloading. You could use a spring-loaded "speed loader" tube with the right trapdoor configuration.

[Barabas]

How about the Bizon?

[dstiltner]

How about the Bizon?

Stealing from the bison desgin, the magwell on the AR15 could be machined off enough to weld the tube onto the receiver.

[Quiet]

Tubular mags are exempt from the over 10 rule I believe.

Only .22 calibered tubular magazines and tubular magazines on lever-action firearms are exempt.

A 9mm tubular magazine on a semi-auto firearm will have to comply with the large capacity magazine laws.

[dstiltner]

Only .22 calibered tubular magazines and tubular magazines on lever-action firearms are exempt.

A 9mm tubular magazine on a semi-auto firearm will have to comply with the large capacity magazine laws.

See post #27 for an AR-15 with lever action.

[slick_711]

Why are you guys always trying to modify the AR to make it somehow legal for it to hold more than 10 rounds? Why not just get a gun that was designed to be tubefed and modify it to be a larger caliber?

I am a big fan of the AR platform but ya'll really need to get away from trying to force every new CA idea onto that platform. The evolution of weapons in the history of man did not look like this:

Rock > Makeshift rock-knife > Knife > Sword > AR-15

So stop acting like it is the be all end all... Yeah, it's popular, lots of people like them, there are lots of aftermarket accessories, that doesn't mean it needs to be the basis for everything new. I thought the same thing in the two seconds that I thought that PS74 thread might be real... "Why try to alter the AR instead of just designing a new weapon?"

OP, I understand the desire to have a pistol caliber rifle that holds more than ten rounds, I really do. But the expense of manufacturing such a thing based on an AR in relation to the viability of marketing it would leave you bankrupt. If you want something for yourself, you'd be better off looking into the Calico 9mm carbine and seeing how that could be altered and improved to make it CA legal. Consider though, that a tubefed 9MM that held 15 rounds would be MUCH slower to reload than a 10 round BB'd 9mm AR.

No offense intended to anyone, I just don't understand the thought process.

[frigginchi]

So far it hasn't cost me a thing. I see a lot of .50 cals based on the AR platform and no one seems to be bothered by that. Why start from scratch when there is a pretty decent platform to use.

Why are you guys always trying to modify the AR to make it somehow legal for it to hold more than 10 rounds? Why not just get a gun that was designed to be tubefed and modify it to be a larger caliber?

I am a big fan of the AR platform but ya'll really need to get away from trying to force every new CA idea onto that platform. The evolution of weapons in the history of man did not look like this:

Rock > Makeshift rock-knife > Knife > Sword > AR-15

So stop acting like it is the be all end all... Yeah, it's popular, lots of people like them, there are lots of aftermarket accessories, that doesn't mean it needs to be the basis for everything new. I thought the same thing in the two seconds that I thought that PS74 thread might be real... "Why try to alter the AR instead of just designing a new weapon?"

OP, I understand the desire to have a pistol caliber rifle that holds more than ten rounds, I really do. But the expense of manufacturing such a thing based on an AR in relation to the viability of marketing it would leave you bankrupt. If you want something for yourself, you'd be better off looking into the Calico 9mm carbine and seeing how that could be altered and improved to make it CA legal. Consider though, that a tubefed 9MM that held 15 rounds would be MUCH slower to reload than a 10 round BB'd 9mm AR.

No offense intended to anyone, I just don't understand the thought process.

[slick_711]

So far it hasn't cost me a thing. I see a lot of .50 cals based on the AR platform and no one seems to be bothered by that. Why start from scratch when there is a pretty decent platform to use.

Ok. I look forward to seeing the finished product (no sarcasm). I certainly didn't mean to stifle creativity or the design process, I just don't understand the approach or appeal.

[NeoWeird]

You all think too traditional. Seriously. (No offense).

Part of designing something new is thinking outside the box but at the same time keeping things simple.

First thought that came through my head when I heard tube fed 9mm AR-15? Well, it's blowback so the gas system is gone. You now have the area on TOP of the barrel for the tube. You machine out a portion on TOP of the receiver for the loading gate and the elveating lever (or would it be a deleveating lever now) protudes above the top receiver rails just below the iron sights line of sight. You also have the housing that holds the cartridge lever have an area where the ejector is attached. The Gas tower can be your anchor for the tube end or it can be bored with a sleeve welded in place to hold height and the tube can pass through it. You can even have it eject through the magwell if you wanted.

Viola. An entire 9mm contained unit that is tube fed and uses a standard AR lower.

[frigginchi]

This is what I like. Collective brainstorming. As for the need to be lever action. Can you use a lever to chamber the first round? Would that be consider it as lever action?

You all think too traditional. Seriously. (No offense).

Part of designing something new is thinking outside the box but at the same time keeping things simple.

First thought that came through my head when I heard tube fed 9mm AR-15? Well, it's blowback so the gas system is gone. You now have the area on TOP of the barrel for the tube. You machine out a portion on TOP of the receiver for the loading gate and the elveating lever (or would it be a deleveating lever now) protudes above the top receiver rails just below the iron sights line of sight. You also have the housing that holds the cartridge lever have an area where the ejector is attached. The Gas tower can be your anchor for the tube end or it can be bored with a sleeve welded in place to hold height and the tube can pass through it. You can even have it eject through the magwell if you wanted.

Viola. An entire 9mm contained unit that is tube fed and uses a standard AR lower.