Folding Stock, Pistol Grip Mini 14 @ the range today

[cyberhh]

I have had multiple conversations about similar possible AW's at various ranges and I handle it a little differently.

Most people are not informed of the law. Ignorance of the law not being a valid excuse if I can help educate someone it may make the difference between a legal owner and someone who makes us all look bad. Ultimately all gun owners are seen as one group by the anti's - the more arrests that are made for illegally modified assault weapons the more ammunition the anti's have for new laws and regulations. The best defense we have is to be better educated as a whole. Those of us on Calguns take for granted our knowledge of the relevant laws and have resources easily available to make sure we are compliant, but there are many, many people in CA without knowledge of what they do not know. We should be willing to help.

That being said, there are a lot of really unfriendly people in the world who have no interest in help of any kind and do not react kindly when you attempt to educate them, for them you are better off keeping your mouth shut and moving on. No point in starting an argument.

I react like this:

"Think Globally, Act within local variable scope" - I think about Gun Owners as a whole and what I was like before I was educated, about the climate in cali and the whole second paragraph in my post (Thinking Globally), then I react based on the specific situation (local variable scope) that I find myself in.

Most of the time people are pleasantly responsive when the issue is raised. Sometimes I am wrong and we have a laugh about it, I have never had anyone react poorly when they are in the right. Generally if they are knowledgeable they are appreciative of the (albeit failed) assistance. When I received comments about my AR I always reacted respectful and assumed the other person was trying to help me out. They walked away a little more informed (and with calguns.net being mentioned over and over) and I always had a smile on my face.

When the person was ignorant it was probably a 90/10 split. 90% of the time the person is thankful for the help and puts the firearm away right away and lock it up. 10% of the time they react poorly, at which point you are better off walking away and letting what happens, happen.

Ultimately we (gun owners) catch enough flack from the anti's that we need to strive to be as informed and helpful and polite as we can be. That is how you win converts (the hearts and minds), being ignorant and rude only reinforces the "lone gunman" FUD that the anti's have about us as a whole.

I realize that this is really, really long, but I do not think that it is something to be decided on lightly.

[Ravenslair]

The only problem with the whole age argument is law enforcement and the military. Both individuals in those categories can register new AW's. I am not opposed at all to striking up conversation at the range. It is always fun to talk guns. I am just one that does not think anyone should be making comments that someone's rifle may be illegal without first knowing a little about the person. If it comes up in conversation, great, but I see no reason to make that the ice breaker in any conversation with someone you do not know anything about. Again, just my two cents.

[professorhard]

I'd just mind my own business...

This is probably the best way to handle the situation. Could be a pre-AWB RAW, could be a military or LEO assault weapon permit, best to just leave the guy alone and let him do his own thing.

[Paradiddle]

I'd just mind my own business...

Maybe it was registered, maybe it wasnt....not your problem.

i know its only my opinion, but about a month ago i took a 1 day class and there was a 20 year old kid there with a mini 14 with pistol grip and collapsable stock.

He continued to tell me that since it was a "mini 14" it was legal and could do whatever he wanted to it.


If he wants to put himself in that situation then thats fine with me.

just my opinion.

Tom

I'm with Tom. When I'm at the range I'm there to enjoy myself and have some private time with my guns - not get lectured or give lectures. Unless something is grossly unsafe or someone is acting inappropriately I just shut up and shoot.

Jeff

[sd1023x]

I have had multiple conversations about similar possible AW's at various ranges and I handle it a little differently.

Most people are not informed of the law. Ignorance of the law not being a valid excuse if I can help educate someone it may make the difference between a legal owner and someone who makes us all look bad. Ultimately all gun owners are seen as one group by the anti's - the more arrests that are made for illegally modified assault weapons the more ammunition the anti's have for new laws and regulations. The best defense we have is to be better educated as a whole. Those of us on Calguns take for granted our knowledge of the relevant laws and have resources easily available to make sure we are compliant, but there are many, many people in CA without knowledge of what they do not know. We should be willing to help.

That being said, there are a lot of really unfriendly people in the world who have no interest in help of any kind and do not react kindly when you attempt to educate them, for them you are better off keeping your mouth shut and moving on. No point in starting an argument.

I react like this:

"Think Globally, Act within local variable scope" - I think about Gun Owners as a whole and what I was like before I was educated, about the climate in cali and the whole second paragraph in my post (Thinking Globally), then I react based on the specific situation (local variable scope) that I find myself in.

Most of the time people are pleasantly responsive when the issue is raised. Sometimes I am wrong and we have a laugh about it, I have never had anyone react poorly when they are in the right. Generally if they are knowledgeable they are appreciative of the (albeit failed) assistance. When I received comments about my AR I always reacted respectful and assumed the other person was trying to help me out. They walked away a little more informed (and with calguns.net being mentioned over and over) and I always had a smile on my face.

When the person was ignorant it was probably a 90/10 split. 90% of the time the person is thankful for the help and puts the firearm away right away and lock it up. 10% of the time they react poorly, at which point you are better off walking away and letting what happens, happen.

Ultimately we (gun owners) catch enough flack from the anti's that we need to strive to be as informed and helpful and polite as we can be. That is how you win converts (the hearts and minds), being ignorant and rude only reinforces the "lone gunman" FUD that the anti's have about us as a whole.

I realize that this is really, really long, but I do not think that it is something to be decided on lightly.

Are you an attorney? If not you shouldn't be dispensing legal advice. If you are, then PREACH!

[Cokebottle]

Are you an attorney? If not you shouldn't be dispensing legal advice. If you are, then PREACH!

I would never construe anything posted on an internet forum... even from a known attorney... as "legal advice".

[pratchett]

I would like to live in a place where people help each other, give and take advice with a smile, and generally behave kindly toward one another.

That place doesn't exist.

Most people are rude and mean, so they have two choices: to see themselves as awful (which is inconceivable), or to rationalize that they're the same as everyone else. In all likelihood, then, the fellow you saw wouldn't even be able to conceive that your motive was genuine concern for others. Psychologists call it cognitive dissonance; Dilbert calls it a paradigm shifting without a clutch.

I've learned to put my fingers in my ears and sing "LA LA LA LA" and you should, too. Hopefully you'll learn before you're as bitter as I am.

[Dangerpin]

Seems like every town needs two ranges, one for people who want a social experience and one for those that want to be left the **** alone. I can see members of each camp represented here.

I see this in the interesting reactions to the "Nice gun, can I shoot it?" threads that have come up from time to time, too.

Anyway, just an observation.

And now back to the regularly scheduled thread.

[sd1023x]

I would never construe anything posted on an internet forum... even from a known attorney... as "legal advice".

Was referring to the people who feel they must dispense legal advice to others at the range, isn't it what this thread is about?

[Beelzy]

Like others have mentioned, the mini may be a RAW. I've had a few weird looks given by people that had OLL builds when I bust out my RAWs.

Oh yeah! especially when they see you insert a Sterling 40rd Mag.

[ironpete]

The problem here is that firearms in general have an inherent amount of macheesemo (yes I've blended macho and cheesiness).

Everybody wants to one-up everybody else. I've got a more accurate/expensive/cool thingy than you. I'm a hep-(calgun)-cat and know about the flowchart...do you know about the flowchart?!? Not in the know eh?

I wouldn't personally blaze into a situation thinking I knew the score. If had already struck up a conversation I might inquire about it, I'm curious by nature. I would not however assume anything about the status of the rifle or the user.

Preaching ups the macheesemo level and detracts from whatever you were trying to say. You might even be right (in that Internet troll kind of way), but was it your point to be right or to help...be honest...no really, I mean be honest.

In the end it is about personal responsibility. Should a street racer be aware that modding/racing his car may get it confiscated? Do you enforce seatbelts if you're the driver of a vehicle? What about if you're a passenger?

If you're the helpful sort, you do what you gotta do otherwise MYOB.

-pete

[stix213]

I wouldn't say a thing to him unless you got into a conversation about something else anyway. If you two started talking to each other, I'd ask him if the rifle was a RAW, and if it wasn't only then would I mention he is breaking the law.

If you were actually an employee of the gun range, then I might say something, but that is more of a looking out for your customers thing. Like just over a week ago I brought my Saiga in my sig pic out to the local range. I started doing a little standing up shooting out at 100 yards and an hour into it one of the range employees I had talked to a few times nicely said "Just want you to know, all those guys next to you are cops. You might not want to be showing off that rifle with that high cap mag." I pointed out that my rifle looks far more scary that it is, with my 30 rounder actually only a 10/30 in a fixed mag configuration, and is all legit. I did appreciate that he was trying to look out for his customers.

The cops were the guys with all the custom AR-15's anyway, so I knew they knew what the laws were.

[akjunkie]

I'm one of those who has a RAW Mini14 with a factory folding stock. I get weird looks all the time at the range.

I hear ya. The "OLL Generation" seems to forget that "regular" centerfire sporting rifles were sold in California for decades before all the Bullcrap laws were put into effect.

I get couple inquiries once in awhile when I take my RAWs out to the range.

[Grumpyoldretiredcop]

Unless you happen to work for DOJ, it's not your job to point this out. You stand a good chance of triggering a confrontation that just isn't worth it. IMHO, the best course is to mind your own business and enjoy shooting whatever you brought to the range.

[Cokebottle]

Was referring to the people who feel they must dispense legal advice to others at the range, isn't it what this thread is about?

I view "Joe Public" with even more skepticism
At least the people on the forums that we believe to be attorneys, such as the people of CGF, we have a pretty good idea that they are who/what they say they are.