Possible AK Side Folder California Solution

[Addax]

Ok, so what about the Polish Tantal design?
(I just posted this info in another thread too).

I have been kicking this idea around for the past month, and I am thinking that this will also be a very good alternative for side folding stock AK rifles, (Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian)

The Polish Tantal Muzzle Brakes are allot longer than the standard AK slant brake and even longer than the AK74 style Muzzle Brake, but do not look hideous, in fact they make these rifles look very cool, and this brake is more functional as a MB, than the slant version.





Length (stock folded): 742 mm (29.2")
Length (stock extended): 943 mm (37.1")
Barrel length: 423 mm (16.65")


So consider a US Mfg Tantal Muzzle Brake that is 1" longer, and made for 5.45mm, 5.56 and 7.62 calibers. This will give you an overall length with stock folded at 30.2"

It would be much easier, less costly and definetly much easier to install vs. a Receiver mounted Stock extender.

Or another idea is to use a standard lenght US MFG Tantal Muzzle Brake and a 1" (Rubber or Plastic) butt stock extension installed at the tail end of the stock.

Or another idea is to use a standard length US MFG Tantal Muzzle Brake.
Then make a 1" stock extension as designed vs. the 4" version.

So this solution would also work to meet the California Compliance of a rifle with a folding stock to be at 30" or more overall length when the stock is folded.

Btw, the original Tantal Muzzle Brake also acted as an Grenade Launching device, so a new design US mfg Tantal Muzzle Brake can be machined minus the grooves for attaching a Grenade and you are good to go.

I just picked up a US mfg. Tantal MB for one of current build projects.

I am going to speak to a couple of builders regarding this idea.

What do you think?

[C.G.]

That would work with bullet lock as long as the muzzle device is permanently pinned or soldered.

[Addax]

That would work with bullet lock as long as the muzzle device is permanently pinned or soldered.

Or a Monsterman grip and a detachable mag either 10 rnd post ban or 30 round pre ban mags.

[Addax]

Or another MB idea is the extended AMD style MB.

This one is sold by tapco, the length is 4.25".

[C.G.]

Or a Monsterman grip and a detachable mag either 10 rnd post ban or 30 round pre ban mags.

False, the folding stock is an evil feature, you would have to pin not only the muzzle device but the stock as well.

[grammaton76]

Nothing wrong with going this route, but as posted in the other thread, it's the answer to a different question than the receiver-mounted extension. I don't meant to thread-jack, but since the two threads are somewhat related, I figured I'd just drop a note in here too. If you do go this route, you do get a neat brake at the end of your rifle, and you meet your legal length requirements. However, you also end up with a longer and slightly barrel-heavier rifle, which is about 4" longer with the stock extended, vs the receiver extension.

[ghost]

where can you get those brakes addax?

[Addax]

where can you get those brakes addax?

The US mfg. Tantal Brake: http://www.ak-builder.com/ak/modules...howpage&pid=41

The AMD Extended Brake:

https://www.tapco.com

[Addax]

HI Grammaton,

( I just posted this response in the other AK Stock Extension Thread too).

I hope my idea was not thought of as an hijacking your idea, I just wanted to give a different spin to help solve the same problem.

Actually the ideas of a stock extender or a longer muzzle brake are trying to solve the same issue, how to make the rifles overall length 30" or longer with the stock folded, it is just hitting it from 2 different sides of the rifle, the stock or the muzzle.

True, the Muzzle Brake idea would add a little more muzzle weight, but the Tantal brake is a screw on and takes the average joe 30 seconds to install it.

You got me on the 1" extended buttpad, it was late when I was typing this and it would not work, but the overall length in question is with the stock folded, and at that moment I was thinking extended. DUH

Anyways, it is just an idea, I have seen a few rifles side folder and even underfolder rifles comming with extended muzzlebrakes to make the overall length 30" with the stock folded, and I thought it would be a good idea to kick around here.

As far as style, function etc. we all have our preferences, I love 74 style, and tantal muzzlebrakes on my AK rifles. I just ordered 2 tantal brakes and 1 74 style brake for my other AK rifles. Yet what I like does not mean everyone will, and the stock extender is another innovative idea.

I thought (my mistake) that the extender was to be installed in the receiver, but making an extension block that screws into the tang is very simple, but I guess it ends up being a matter of choice/preference to either install a stock extender or a longer muzzlebrake.

What about making a 1" stock extension along with the 4" version, so that for those of us who want to have a Tantal Muzzlebrake or extended AK variant muzzle brake (like the AMD brake), we can have a choice?

Also, by extending the stock 4", will this affect the way the rifle fits with some shooters (arm length varies from each person) and adding 4" might make it more comfortable for some and less for others? Just a thought.

[Addax]

False, the folding stock is an evil feature, you would have to pin not only the muzzle device but the stock as well.

From what I understand, no you would not have to as long as the overall length of the rifle is over 30" when the stock is folded.

Hence why the idea of a Stock Extender or a longer muzzlebrake basically negates the overall length issue and thus you don't have to pin the side folder stock, or weld the Muzzle brake on.

Now if your barrel length is less than 16", then you have to weld the MB on to make the overall barrel length at 16" or more.

Again, this is what I understand from reading the current AW laws and from discussions on this forum.

Anyone please correct me if I am mistaken or if I forgot anything?

[C.G.]

From what I understand, no you would not have to as long as the overall length of the rifle is over 30" when the stock is folded.

Hence why the idea of a Stock Extender or a longer muzzlebrake basically negates the overall length issue and thus you don't have to pin the side folder stock, or weld the Muzzle brake on.

Now if your barrel length is less than 16", then you have to weld the MB on to make the overall barrel length at 16" or more.

Again, this is what I understand from reading the current AW laws and from discussions on this forum.

Anyone please correct me if I am mistaken or if I forgot anything?

Please, please read the facts again:

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
A thumbhole stock.
A folding or telescoping stock.
A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
A flash suppressor.
A forward pistol grip.

Whether you use an extension or a muzzle device to meet the 30' requirement you have to make that change permanent. This is very much like the minimum length barrel of 16". I have to look this one up when I'll get a chance to make sure, this was told to me by a gunsmith.

[kmk]

Sign Me Up!

[grammaton76]

From what I understand, no you would not have to as long as the overall length of the rifle is over 30" when the stock is folded.

Sorry, afraid not... extending the length of the rifle only nullifies the automatic transition to AW for a centerfire, semi-automatic rifle with length of less than 30".

It does not nullify the fact that a folding stock is also an 'assault weapon feature', so yes, it does have to stay pinned, no matter how long the rifle is.

Hence why the idea of a Stock Extender or a longer muzzlebrake basically negates the overall length issue and thus you don't have to pin the side folder stock, or weld the Muzzle brake on.

Now if your barrel length is less than 16", then you have to weld the MB on to make the overall barrel length at 16" or more.

Right, this is based on barrel length - but not overall length. Even if you had a 30" stock, and a 14" barrel, it would be an illegal SBR (Short Barrelled Rifle) if you didn't weld on a muzzle extension on to make it 16". Remember, California isn't into clarity...

Again, this is what I understand from reading the current AW laws and from discussions on this forum.

Anyone please correct me if I am mistaken or if I forgot anything?

Believe that's pretty much it... sorry.

[Addax]

Ok, so what if the mag was pinned or made non-detachable?

Then you could have a side folding stock as long as it was over 30" in length with the stock folded.

[Addax]

Grammaton,

You are so right about things not being clear here in CA.

After reading my posts, your posts, C.G.'s posts, I went back to read (again for the 100th time) all of the different laws, and I failed to realize one important thing. The detachable mag with the side folder is the issue, that I may not be taking into account here.

If you fix the mag, and you have a length more than 30" (folded), then that should be ok, right?

I found this on CWS when I looked at the Romy folding stock.

Good info:

Note to Californians: Before installing this folding stock, ensure that your intentions are in line with California's assault weapons ban. You may only install this stock on your rifle if one (or more) of the following is true:

* Your AK is already a pre-2000, registered assault rifle.
* Your rifle's magazine is fixed in place, and has no more than a 10 round capacity.
* Your AK is not semi-automatic (i.e. gas system is disabled, like the Century PAR-1).
* Your AK is not a centerfire rifle (i.e. it's a 22LR rimfire trainer)

Furthermore, bear in mind the overall length of your rifle. In California, your rifle's overall length is measured from the tip of the barrel's farthest extension, to the rear of your stock with the stock folded. A semi-automatic, centerfire rifle's minimum legal length limit is 30 inches. A rimfire (i.e. 22LR trainer) or manually operated (i.e. pump action) rifle may be no shorter than 26" long.

If your rifle will end up too just a bit too short, you may extend its overall length with a fake suppressor at the end of the barrel.

For reference purposes, a standard Romanian 'G' kit will measure 26.5" long when this stock is installed. It could be brought up to 30" in length with a 4" flash hider or fake suppressor, or configured as a non-semi-automatic.