16" Midlength upper... which buffer??

[GoodEyeSniper]

So, I've been doing a lot of searching, but didn't seem to find anything that quite dealt with this. Though I'm sure it's been beaten to death.

if I get a 16" midlength upper, are there drawbacks to using different buffer lengths? I would assume a midlength buffer would be first pick, but on most buttstock assemblies that are adjustable they seem to come with carbine length buffers. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places. I've read pages and pages on disadvantages of carbine gas systems compared to mid length, but that seems more related to the overall system, so I'm not sure where a mid length upper + carbine buffer tube would fit in that equation.

More specifically, I'm working on my first, somewhat budget build, looking at the 16" CMMG Midlength Gov upper at evilblackrifleshop, so looking for an inexpensive buffer kit to go with it.

Thanks in advance.

[Plisk]

From what I know, the type of buffer system to the gas system doesn't make much difference. It's mostly in the ammo. Wolf ammo runs my carbine gas system with carbine buffer system pretty well. 1/200 short strokes there. But with my buddies rifle gas/buffer system it short strokes more aften. About 1/50. But using Privi Partisan, no short strokes.

I can't think of a inexpensive buffer system to use, but I'm sure someone can point your way to one.

[NeoWeird]

There are only two standard buffer lengths - rifle and carbine. If you're using a rifle length receiver extension, you use a rifle length buffer. If using a carbine length receiver extension, you use a carbine length buffer. Carbine buffers and rifle buffers will fit in either receiver extension, but will not function properly and will DAMAGE your rifle if used in the wrong receiver extension.

Mid-length, and also carbine and rifle, length gas system(s) refers to the distance of the gas port from the chamber, and subsequently the length of the gas system. You can use a carbine length gas system on a rifle length buffer system. You can use a rifle length gas system on a carbine buffer. It's mix-and-match and each has it's own pros and cons, though they are all relatively minor.

Pick the stock you want and use the appropriate buffer. 95% of stocks will either come with the buffer included or will tell you what buffer to use (like the Magpul CTR will tell you it uses a carbine buffer but doesn't come with one). The other 5% will assume that you know a A2 buttstock uses a rifle length buffer or that a CAR stock uses a carbine buffer.

The only other confussing part in that regard is recever extensions, aka buffer tubes, themselves. There are several that I can think of off the top of my head and I'm sure many more.

Rifle receiver extensions are all the same and are rifle length. The A1 and A2 buttstock are different lengths but use the same extension. The A2 uses a spacer to compensate for the added length.

The mil-spec carbine tube was the original used on the CAR family of rifles. The commercial is the exact same thing but with a larger diameter EXTERNALLY and it usually has a slanted, more 'sporting' back to it. This was done so the commercial couldn't use military stocks. Other than that, they can be used on the same receivers and use the same internals. These range anywhere from two to eight positions. That just means that, depending on the extension you have, there may be as few as only two or as many as eight places where you may lock your stock. Generally speaking, but not always true, the more spots the newer the stock design.

There is also the slick carbine extension. This originally appeared in the Colt 607 carbine but has recently been marketed by Rock River Arms for their "Entry stock" which is a solid A2 type stock that is the length of a fully collapsed carbine stock. It is sometimes used in pistol systems.

There are also a myriad of sub-carbine buffers. From the M231 port firing weapon, pistol length, the Olympic Arms no-buffer extension, to the receiver plug and a number of others in between.

I hope that didn't get too confussing.

To summarize:

Only two standard buffer lengths - Rifle and Carbine. They do NOT interchange.
Pick the stock you want, that determines the receiver extension and buffer iteslf.
Either or works.
As an American, you have a bazillion+ options for your gun.

[GoodEyeSniper]

Ah, very good info. So the biggest concern is the overall buttstock assembly, not necessarily the gas system on the upper... Now I just need to find a quality buttstock, preferrably the whole assembly so I don't fudge something up

I've held quite a few that felt "rattley", is that common with most inexpensive, adjustable buttstocks? hell, maybe I'll just go fixed stock.

[bombadillo]

Oh, whats the damage to the rifle using a carbine buffer in a rifle extension? I couldn't figure out any real potential damage that could happen. Maybe to the charging handle or bolt?? Where would that occur?

[osis32]

Ah, very good info. So the biggest concern is the overall buttstock assembly, not necessarily the gas system on the upper... Now I just need to find a quality buttstock, preferrably the whole assembly so I don't fudge something up

I've held quite a few that felt "rattley", is that common with most inexpensive, adjustable buttstocks? hell, maybe I'll just go fixed stock.

the rattle more than likely comes from the spring and buffer in the receiver extension. both lengths have that type of system and I doubt its any less prevalent with a carbine. I havent noticed any difference in the carbine and rifle style ARs Ive handled.

[Josh3239]

Oh, whats the damage to the rifle using a carbine buffer in a rifle extension? I couldn't figure out any real potential damage that could happen. Maybe to the charging handle or bolt?? Where would that occur?

The carbine buffer is significantly shorter than the rifle buffer and will not put enough pressure on the BCG to knock it back into battery. You will have failure of the bolt to close.

[bombadillo]

Reason asking is that I have actually shot a rifle tube with a carbine buffer on accident. I was swapping things around at the house and noticed a bit more sproing than normal one day. I never had a round fail to fire or any other real issues though so maybe it was a fluke, but it worked for me.

[ar15barrels]

Match the buffer and spring to the type of stock.
Don't worry about the type of stock compared to the type of gas system.
Rifle buffers and springs make for smoother running guns.

[Justintoxicated]

BravoCompanyUSA has a good cheap regular Stock (Version 1) hardly any play.

I have run both regular and HBar's in my middie and they both ran flawless. I tossed the Hbar into my carbine though, but I wouldn't hesitate to toss it back into my Middie although most people suggest the standard weight buffer.

If your on a budget don't hesitate to grab this.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/M4-Stock-Milspec-p/stock%20m4%20milspec%20black.htm

[car15]

I've read using a non "H" carbine buffer is GTG also if you want to save a few bucks.

[Crusader]

My first build started out as a 16" midlength on a carbine buffer system. It worked just fine and shot ok. I then switched to a 20" rifle gas system on my carbine buffer. That worked just as well, but I liked the feel of the longer barrel while still being able to adjust the stock.

On my new build, I'm running a 16" carbine gas system on an A2 stock and full rifle buffer spring. In my opinion, the A2 stock and rifle buffer is much more comfortable, so I'm sticking with that for the time being.

[ar15barrels]

I've read using a non "H" carbine buffer is GTG also if you want to save a few bucks.

H buffers are a CARBINE gas system fix that's not required or desireable on a mid-length gas system.

[TwitchALot]

H buffers are a CARBINE gas system fix that's not required or desireable on a mid-length gas system.

That's not necessarily so. Firstly, an H buffer will work fine with a midlength in most cases, but I'd really only recommend it if you're consistently using 5.56 since it runs at higher pressures and you won't have any short stroking issues, while retaining the advantages of a heavier buffer. H buffers in a midlength will function with .223 ammo, but depending on how much oil is on your gun/how dirty it is, and the type of ammo you're using (Wolf and PMC being pretty weak), the H buffer may cause short-stroking in a midlength.

Secondly, if you're running the gun suppressed, you may even want to use an H2 buffer with your midlength (doesn't really apply to Californians, but then, midlengths aren't California specific, either) to deal with the extra gas coming back into the carrier. The best buffer for your gun isn't necessarily as simple as, "H for carbine, standard for midlength." Although that's not a bad generalization, it is still a generalization.

[chsk9]

Are there any buffers that don't "TWANG"?