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  • floogy
    Veteran Member
    • Sep 2009
    • 2741

    BCG Surface Durability

    I've been thinking about this in regards to BCG coatings/treatments and their durability. Apples to apples. Same quality level of the components, consistent heat treat, etc.

    Phosphate is probably the least durable of the coatings, but mil spec BCGs are chrome lined. Which will enhance durability in those areas. I don't know of phosphate BCGs without chrome lining of the bolt carrier. Perhaps there are bottom of the barrel BCGs that are phosphate without being chrome lined, but that's not relevant if we're talking about quality parts.

    Nitride is a great surface treatment. It is very durable and corrosion resistant and the finish is applied to the entire BCG. Making the BCG more wear resistant and easier to clean. However, it lacks the chrome lining in the carrier, which may make it less wear resistant in that area.

    There's also nickel boron, which seems to me to fall somewhere in between chrome and nitride. Some lower quality NiB BCGs have had the coating flake off, but again, low quality or defective parts are not good for comparison. It does seem to be the best of both worlds, but I suspect it is not as durable as the chrome lining or fully chromed BCGs.

    There are also other coatings and treatments. Fully chromed BCGs, which are very durable, but also expensive in comparison. There are also QPQ, titanium nitride and other variations. Which seem to be close to nitride finishes in durability and other properties.

    While coatings other than phosphate have definite advantages, I'm not sure how much of an advantage they are overall. I don't think a nitride BCG is going to be as durable as the chrome lining of a phosphate BCG. So while the phosphate BCG's surface may wear, the chrome lining where it contacts the gas rings is likely to outlast the nitride.

    In any case, I'd rather have a high quality BCG that's worn down to bare metal from use than one with a more durable surface but unknown heat treat and QC processes. The most likely failure seems to be shearing a bolt lug or breaking a cam pin, which the coating has nothing to do with. I'm skeptical of a lot of the claims in regards to lubrication. Claims that because of the surface it can be run without lubricant. It seems that regardless of the properties of the BCG, proper lubrication will always be better than none, even if it
    is possible to go without.

    In my opinion, I don't see a lot of reasons to spend much more than what it costs for a good quality mil spec BCG. In a lot of cases, the nitride BCGs seem to be coming in under the cost of a phosphate mil spec these days. Probably due to the lower cost of this type of metal treatment compared to chrome plating.

    So which type provides the best performance or best price/performance, with all else equal? No wrong answers. I think the only wrong answer would be sacrificing overall quality for a certain type of BCG coating. If some of my opinions or information is way off, I'm interested to hear why.
  • #2
    rlewpolar
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2014
    • 1447

    Comment

    • #3
      floogy
      Veteran Member
      • Sep 2009
      • 2741

      Yeah, which is why I've settled on just being fine with good mil spec BCGs. I've not seen a convincing enough argument for the other coatings other than ease of cleaning. I don't need to clean my rifle to the point where a q tip comes out clean any more. Oil helps break down the carbon buildup and I can use solvent if it's bad.

      Comment

      • #4
        bwiese
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Oct 2005
        • 27622

        Let the BC wear, not the inside lining of your upper receiver.

        Uncle Sugar a long time ago (VN era) had chromed bolt carriers and found
        they wore the inside of the upper significantly. This is why I specifically
        recommend AGAINST 'match' Young Co hard chromed BCs.

        Get a regular USGI-style phosphated BC that is chrome lined in the bolt
        opening. Make sure the carrier key is properly 'staked' to BC, and get
        a quality bolt that has been HPT (hi pressure tested)/MPI (magnetic particle
        inspected).

        You don't need to order a fancy BC assembly - USGI-style is fine. Also
        it doesn't matter that much how dirty the bolt carrier itself gets - easy
        to clean with baby wipes. Worry about bolt, receiver extension lugs,
        extrator & ejector being clean & lubricated and you'll be fine.

        Bill Wiese
        San Jose, CA

        CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life member
        sigpic
        No postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, are
        to be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Net
        ownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my
        employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as
        legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

        Comment

        • #5
          BucDan
          Veteran Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 4063

          I believe phosphate was selected to hold onto oil better?

          Comment

          • #6
            floogy
            Veteran Member
            • Sep 2009
            • 2741

            Originally posted by bwiese
            Let the BC wear, not the inside lining of your upper receiver.

            Uncle Sugar a long time ago (VN era) had chromed bolt carriers and found
            they wore the inside of the upper significantly. This is why I specifically
            recommend AGAINST 'match' Young Co hard chromed BCs.

            Get a regular USGI-style phosphated BC that is chrome lined in the bolt
            opening. Make sure the carrier key is properly 'staked' to BC, and get
            a quality bolt that has been HPT (hi pressure tested)/MPI (magnetic particle
            inspected).

            You don't need to order a fancy BC assembly - USGI-style is fine. Also
            it doesn't matter that much how dirty the bolt carrier itself gets - easy
            to clean with baby wipes. Worry about bolt, receiver extension lugs,
            extrator & ejector being clean & lubricated and you'll be fine.
            Good points. While upper receivers are usually cheaper than the BCG, replacing them is not nearly as easy as a BCG. Also, as the upper wears, you'll get more slop. Not something I'd really heard much about or considered. Regardless, bare metal isn't a huge issue if it's maintained.

            Yep, check all the boxes. C158, MPI/HPT, shot peened. I've got nothing against the 9310 bolts, but it's probably more of a dice roll deviating from the mil specs. From what I've heard, 9310 is nearly the same as C158, but has a narrower range of temps for heat treat, while C158 is more forgiving.

            Originally posted by BucDan
            I believe phosphate was selected to hold onto oil better?
            May be true. I think that mainly it's just a cost effective way to treat metal against corrosion. But it does hold oil well.

            Comment

            • #7
              Jimi Jah
              I need a LIFE!!
              • Jan 2014
              • 19316

              Nitride works best here. Easy to clean too. My issue with phosphate/parked BCG's is that the park wears off the rails quickly. Then you have bare steel to rub against your upper.

              My nitride rails are still slick after years of use.

              Comment

              • #8
                FeuerFrei
                Calguns Addict
                • Aug 2008
                • 7455

                I am indifferent as to what the OP chooses to use in his AR clones. None of my biz.

                I do however find that if an AR shooter has tried an alternative coating besides park, they can provide first hand knowledge/observation that can be explored further.

                My guess is he has never tried alternates because of the age old dogma surrounding govt approved parked process. Ain't broke so don't fix.

                *not all process of the alternative coatings are equal. Recipes are changed to gain proprietary ownership and make more money/profitability via patents. Some processes have better QC and some peg the suck meter. Caveat emptor.

                *I have parked, NiB and Melonite and Tenifer finished parts on various guns I own. They all work. Lubricity and corrosion resistance is different and maintaining that is what set the alternative coatings apart from good ole park finishes. IMO.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Munny$hot
                  Veteran Member
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 3665

                  I've used them all, but if I had to choose one it be the USGI BCG
                  Can DI AR's run dirty?

                  Palmetto State Armory Suppliers revealed

                  "If it ain't stock, it don't belong on your Glock"

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    bugsy714
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2011
                    • 2418

                    dictated but not read

                    Voice typing will butcher whatever I was trying to say

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      k1dude
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • May 2009
                      • 15986

                      If they're made properly, they all work well enough. Although when given a choice, I always choose nitride. It stays on, it's inexpensive, wears well, and isn't a dimensional coating.
                      "Show me a young conservative and I'll show you a man without a heart. Show me an old liberal and I'll show you a man without a brain." - Sir Winston Churchill

                      "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!" - Senator Barry Goldwater

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