Retro AR with carry handle 4x scope – shot better than I expected

[alpha_romeo_XV]

[five.five-six]

Not unexpected with the 1:7 barrel, nice shooting.

1:12 wouldn’t do that. I think the 1:7 was a good decision.

[crufflers]

I used to hit anything I wanted to hit with a carry handle 4x like that on a 20" A2 1:9... Bushmaster Hbar, chrome lined. Shooting mostly 55 grain fodder and some 62 grain. It is definitely retro nowadays but it worked then and works now. Fixed power glass is rugged and the BDC was pretty much right on.

[Tere_Hanges]

Not unexpected with the 1:7 barrel, nice shooting.

1:12 wouldn’t do that. I think the 1:7 was a good decision.

I beg to differ. I have two retro A1 pencil barrels with 1:12 twist that will group just as well as my 1:7 and 1:9 barrels shooting 55gr and 62gr bullets at 100yds with iron sights. One is a Brownell's retro upper, the other is a homebuild using a green mountain barrel.

At 100yds or less, It really depends more on the quality of the barrel than the twist, even though the science says various twists can effect different bullet weights.

Windham is the best kept secret in AR barrels, IMHO. I think they get their blanks from green mountain. I think Windham quality is just as good if not better than Colt.

Nice grouping OP, but at 50yds, all my ARs group like that with iron sights regardless of twist, length, bullet weight or barrel profile. You cant really determine jack as far as accuracy goes at 50yds. 100yds and 300yds are better tests. Not to be rude, but AR15 groupings at 50yds are unimpressive because literally all AR15s group well at that distance. I dont think I've ever had an AR that grouped over 1" at 50yds. The only thing you can really determine at 50yds is if you are sighted in enough to move to 100yds.

[green grunt]

NICE set up..... 1/7 is still the more popular of the current twist rates....

love the retro's !! ... need me one of those scopes

[SamGoldstein]

Where does one get that scope?

[crufflers]

I don't know if the Ultralux are any better than the old BEC Eurolux Colt clones, but the new Brownell's Hakko version is sure to have superior modern glass and mechanism... glass snobs will tell you a $40 scope should not work, but they do. A lot more cost effective than $300, but I want to look through one of the new Brownell's versions. Honestly would not buy one unless I had a REAL carry handle upper, which I do not anymore. Bolt on carry handles are kind of ironic IMHO. Nice rifle, OP.

[Endless]

Classy.

I remember after I saw the movie "Taps" with Timothy Hutton and Tom Cruise I wanted a Colt fixed handle with the Japanese Colt optic on top. I bought one when I lived in Alaska.

[Ki6vsm]

Nice shooting. I have to say though, a proper skinny barrel would make it into a different kind of rifle. I have an ancient M16-A1 upper that my brother installed on his Colt SP-1 (which is now mine). With that skinny barrel the rifle is just about the handiest feeling long gun imaginable. Very light, perfect balance. Has the original A1 style stock too.

I never used that upper for pure shooting-for-groups kinda stuff. But it's not that inaccurate/imprecise according to my brother. He told me that, on a good day anyway, he'd get about 1.25" groups out of it at 100 yds using his handloads. From a bench, iron sights, young eyes. Just 55gr bullets I'm sure. Anything heavier was pretty much unheard of back in those days for obvious reasons.

[Ki6vsm]

FWIW, I bought one the Hakko 4x scopes for my carry handle, back about 20 years ago. I think Hakko was the original mfr of the Colt scopes, but don't quote me. Back around Y2K they were sold through a company called Combat Military Optics (CMO). It's a nice idea. Didn't fit my carry handle perfectly though. slightly narrower than the groove so it had a bit of a wobble to it no matter how much I tightened down on that lever. I tried making shims for it. Never quite got that perfect either. Plus the shims would be lost when the scope came off. Kinda defeated the purpose of a detachable scope.

[smle-man]

The only carry handle scopes I saw used in the Army was at BT when they gave us 4x civilian scopes that mounted on the carry handle for pre-MILES training. Everyone had a numbered helmet cover and wore the funky helmet radio set up that allowed you to report the number of the enemy you spotted through your scope. You spotted a bad guy, fired a blank and called out the number over the radio. Lots of fun.

I suspect the GI in the picture has a Colt scope that someone sent him from home.

[Tere_Hanges]

Well done! I also have a 20" Windham barrel that I put on a DPMS A2 upper. My windage was also perfect at mechanical zero. It's a very smooth shooter with a government profile barrel & rifle length gas system, plus the A2 stock.

Your set up looks like a C7 upper? Your stock appears to be an A2? Did you buy the complete upper? Again, it looks great.

I think he did. Windham offers these farby retro uppers with A1 rear sight, teardrop assist, and triangular handguards. Everything else on them is A2 (brass deflector, barrel, flashhider, FSB, and slip/delta ring). Looks like OP replaced the A2 flashhider with a three prong for a more "retro" look.

https://shop.windhamweaponry.com/product/ur20gvta1-7/

OP's lower is all A2 except for the grip. You can always tell an A2 lower by the reinforced portion around the buffer tube extension. The M16A1 and A2 both had the "fence" around the mag release.

I think OP was just going for an affordable retro "inspired" AR.

[nitroxdiver]

I wonder how prevalently used the 4x carry handle scope was in Vietnam.

[Tere_Hanges]

Windham makes a good barrel, and they index and pin the front sight tower on correctly. Granted it's not a "pencil" or original profile barrel. I gave up trying to get a proper A1 or C7 upper from Brownells; they were putting out crap that was worse than PSA's canted front sights. Windham Weaponry is solid.

Preaching to the choir about Windham quality, see the 4th post.

I love Windham barrels. But their "A1" upper is pure farb.

I got one of the Brownells 601 retro uppers on sale for $500 last year. It's really high quality IMHO, shoots like a laser. I havent heard anything about their retro uppers having issues other than the finishes being all over the place. They can't seem to do a correct XM gray.

These are the two retro builds I put together. Air Force M16A1 on top, and XM16E1 on bottom. Featureless grips and thread protectors for compliance.

[Oceanbob]

I love the A2 style....

Bob