308 barrel length

[winxp_man]

So much fail.

Sure is hahahaha....


I will make a couple of points though. Do most of you realize that the videos posted of the 18" barrels shooting at 1K are customs barrel not factory? Thus creating the issue of FPS needed to reach 1K reliably. Velocities read from a custom barrel will always be faster then factory barrel. NOT!! Saying that you will not see a fast barrel once in a while but over all a custom will be faster.

As for twist I think a 1-12 is fine. Reason and you can post otherwise if you want. Why shoot anything heavier than 180gr bullet in a .308 Win??? You want heavier bullets? Shoot a cartridge that will work with heavier bullets and have the power to push the heavy bullets with no problem.

I do like the 26" barrel on my SPS Varmint .308 that shoots .5 and below with reloads or 168gr FGMM match all day long. I will keep it like that until the barrel is shot out.

[milotrain]

because dick measuring contest
The 10k of Nosler 77 HPBT isn't in the shot because I only pull from it once every 1k. None of the pistol bullets or 100 round test boxes are in the shot. This is just the 30cal match and long range 22 stockpile.

[FMJBT]

^^^

I'm not gonna proclaim you as the official Dirk Diggler of the thread just yet, but that is a very lengthy and girthy pile of bullets to be sure.

[BillyGoatCrawler]

I didn't dispute that - 1:12 works really well for a whole lot of bullets in barrel lengths from 18" to 30". I'm saying that in the last ~10 years, new s#!t has come to light in bullet design, and if you want to use some of that new stuff then you might, maybe, possibly, perhaps, want to consider 1:11 or 1:10. No pressure, think it over, if you want to go with 1:12, that's totally cool. 1:12 has worked well for the last 60 years and will continue to work well in the future.

Silly? Bro, do you even calculate before you operate? Peep this knowledge:

The spin drift difference between 1:12 and 1:10 twist at 500 yards is 0.1 moa. At 1000 yards that difference balloons up to... 0.2 moa. Precession? Shearing? People smarter than me have shown, both in theory and experiment, that these effects are so small to be irrelevant. You can, for example, check Stecker's experiments on shearing.

Otherwise, like The Dude warned, you are stating something that's just, like, your opinion, man.

I like your style, dude.

[ar15barrels]

because dick measuring contest
The 10k of Nosler 77 HPBT isn't in the shot because I only pull from it once every 1k. None of the pistol bullets or 100 round test boxes are in the shot. This is just the 30cal match and long range 22 stockpile.

I have about 15ft of kitchen cabinets out in my shop where my rifle bullets and brass are stored, all sorted by caliber.
I have too many handgun bullets (too heavy for cabinets to stay attached to wall) so they are under the bench and handgun brass is in 5gallon buckets.

[milotrain]

Oh to have 15 feet of space in the garage/shop!!!! :jelly:

[ar15barrels]

Oh to have 15 feet of space in the garage/shop!!!! :jelly:

The old shop was 180 sq ft.
The new shop is about 700 sq ft, but the kitchen and bathroom eat up some of that.
There is another 200 sq ft of covered space behind the shop that I use for the compressors, sandblaster, park tanks and paint area.
I could easily spread out into a 2000 sq feet space and I'm sure that would eventually be filled up by tool creep as well...

[milotrain]

Tools are the seventh noble gas.

[BillyGoatCrawler]

The eighth.

The seventh is element 118 - ununoctium.

[RobertMW]

I am sorry, but once you find the need to go up to a 185gr+ bullet in a .308 Win, it's time to reevaluate the cartridge you are using. At that point, you are dominated by the guy who has stepped up to a magnum or down to a 6 or 6.5. I love the .308 Winchester, and I'll always shoot one, but let's be realistic and choose the right tool for the job.

Just to point something out:

1) yes, bumping up to a magnum, or down to one of the sexy 6's that are starting to dominate, will absolutely yield better external ballistics than just switching to a very heavy bullet in a .308, but putting a 185, 210, 220 grain bullet on top of a .308 WILL improve extreme range ballistics over a 168.

2) Both stepping up to .300WM or even greater, or stepping down to the 6.5 or 6's will increase costs. Both options will increase barrel wear over the .308, the 6's the worst of the bunch, and loading a magnum means more powder = more cost, and most magnum brass doesn't last as long.

So maybe some people just don't think the costs of going either of those other routes are worth the benefits.

[Shakey]

^ RobertMW, thank you for clearly laying out what I was trying to write. If you are a top competitor then the rules and requirements of the game narrowly constrain the equipment. For the rest of us, not so much.

I still don't see why JMP has such a bee in his bonnet about someone else's barrel and the "correctness" of bullets other guys use in their 308s. He does seem to be very worried about "getting dominated by guys with magnums." (shrug) That might tend to make a feller jumpy.

[JMP]

I still don't see why JMP has such a bee in his bonnet about someone else's barrel and the "correctness" of bullets other guys use in their 308s. He does seem to be very worried about "getting dominated by guys with magnums." (shrug) That might tend to make a feller jumpy.

LOL, you can shoot whatever you please.

Just to point something out:

1) yes, bumping up to a magnum, or down to one of the sexy 6's that are starting to dominate, will absolutely yield better external ballistics than just switching to a very heavy bullet in a .308, but putting a 185, 210, 220 grain bullet on top of a .308 WILL improve extreme range ballistics over a 168.

2) Both stepping up to .300WM or even greater, or stepping down to the 6.5 or 6's will increase costs. Both options will increase barrel wear over the .308, the 6's the worst of the bunch, and loading a magnum means more powder = more cost, and most magnum brass doesn't last as long.

So maybe some people just don't think the costs of going either of those other routes are worth the benefits.

I completely understand the point you are trying to make. However, I shoot smaller and larger than .308, and there are other considerations that mitigate cost. You don't necessarily gush money when going to a cartridge that does better.

If budget is the concern, there are smaller cartridges in 6 or 6.5 that don't gobble up the barrel. Things like the 6BR or 6.5 Lapua. No, they aren't going to last as long as a .308, but the barrel life will be decent. The brass life is really good. For me, .308 brass really doesn't have a great lifespan since you need to charge them pretty high to get good results. Really, there is a little too much unwarranted barrel burning hysteria, IMO.

6.5 Lapua is one of the most cost effective cartridges. Yes, you have a larger initial investment for the brass, but it's lifespan of those Lapua cases will end up saving money over most other cartridges. 6.5mm projectiles are available at lower cost than 6mm or 30 cal.

By going to a smaller caliber and case, the extra cost of rebarreling may essentially be nothing, if, say you need a brake installed on a .308 vs. no brake on a 6 or 6.5. I do not have a brake on my 6 or 6.5, but I have a brake on my .308. It saves money if the gunsmith needs to only thread one end of the barrel.

Going up to a magnum, of course, they will be more to run. However, the cost increase really isn't as much as folks think. Powder really isn't what costs. The largest cost is always going to be in the projectile. If you run high end bullets in a .308, your cost goes up. Large cartridges really do not spike that high in cost until you go to solid projectiles and/or cases that require a 50 BMG primer. For example, with a .338 Lapua (that folks seem to think is really really expensive), if you aren't running it really hard, it'll cost about $1.25/round as the brass will last and the barrel life isn't bad. Compare that to a .223 Remington that'll cost $0.25-$0.50/round. You'll probably spend less in a day with the .338 Lapua than you will with a .223 Remington since you'll be taking far fewer shots with the .338.

So, if you really think about, you can run other cartridges much more economically that what many believe and still yield pretty good results. Of course, you can also run them in a manner that is much more expensive.

Like I have said, I love the .308 Winchester, and I think the benefits outweigh the costs to also run something of more performance. It may not cost as much as you think over the long run if you sit down and plan it out.

[ar15barrels]

6.5mm projectiles are available at lower cost than 6mm

Huh?
What is this you speak?

In any given product line, I usually see the bullets are generally priced by weight.

107 smk's are cheaper than 142's.
105 hybrids are cheaper than 140's.

[Shakey]

If budget is the concern, there are smaller cartridges in 6 or 6.5 that don't gobble up the barrel. Things like the 6BR or 6.5 Lapua. No, they aren't going to last as long as a .308, but the barrel life will be decent. The brass life is really good. For me, .308 brass really doesn't have a great lifespan since you need to charge them pretty high to get good results. Really, there is a little too much unwarranted barrel burning hysteria, IMO.

What do you think of 6BR? That cartridge seems very interesting - great accuracy, good barrel life, low component costs, low recoil, etc, etc.

Also, thanks for dealing with all my joking around in this thread.

[milotrain]

6BR is a famously good round to 600 yards. Guys build custom chassis with custom magazines just to run the 6BR.