Bolt action choices... Help please

[2W2X1]

I've identified my budget ($1200). Identified the caliber I plan to use (308).

After handling two that meet the bill, I can't decide...

If you were faced with these two options, which would you choose?

A. Remington 700P (25709)
B. Savage 10/110 FCP HS (18139)

The wild card for a few hundred more seems to be the Savage (18142) 10 FCP McMillan.

Looking for thoughts on the selections I may not have thought of.

I plan to punch paper and being in SF Bay Area, I don't have access to anything over 1000yds and mostly plan to stay under 500yds. Not really a hunter.

Regards,
Joey

[duckman1]

I own 3 of the Remington 700's......

[khw9mm]

For paper punching, you can go wrong with either. But I'd pick the 700P for the aftermarket support.

[2W2X1]

At this price point, should I really need aftermarket support? Rifle, scope, maybe eventually bi-pod... What else would I possibly want in aftermarket?

[baih777]

here is another nice savage.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=411540368/Savage+HS+308+24+5R-THREADED+BARREL

[RNE228]

Is you $1200 for the package, or just the rifle? A good scope is not cheap.

[Nevertipsy]

Not sure this is an option, but how about the Remington 700 5R? It is under your budget, and a great rifle. If not, I'd choose the 700P and save for quality RINGS AND BASE.

[khw9mm]

At this price point, should I really need aftermarket support? Rifle, scope, maybe eventually bi-pod... What else would I possibly want in aftermarket?

It depends. The 700P comes with a HS Precision stock which is good but you might want to upgrade to a different stock at some point. A good trigger and a brake might help as well...this is not to say Savage has no aftermarket support. The 700 just has more of it.

[E92335i]

I have this for sale.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=963318

Can't go wrong with either one. Glass is important.

[2W2X1]

$1200 budget is for gun only.

[2W2X1]

Khw9mm... Good points. Thanks for the input.

[sjb269]

I would get the Remington 5R. I have both of the rifles you list. Both great shooters. If you go savage, get the accutrigger.

Now, more importantly, what scope are you gonna put on top?

[Wrangler John]

My thing is building Savage and Remington 700 based rifles for varmint hunting and experimentation.

Between the two you listed the Remington uses a 1:12" twist barrel while the Savage uses a 1:10" twist. This may not seem significant except when the heaviest 180-200 grain .308" bullets are used. Check the chart here for minimum twists required for .308" target bullets:

http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/target-bullets/

As you can see the 1:10" twist will handle all weights. The 1:12" twist will perform well with two of these: http://www.bergerbullets.com/products/tactical-bullets/

This becomes more important when lead free bullets are considered, as generally these bullets are longer in the heavier weights than lead core offerings, hence require a faster twist. If you plan on using a particular factory loaded ammo, or handload, use the Berger Twist Calculator linked on the pages above to determine if your rifle can properly stabilize them.

As to the rifles themselves: the Remington is an accurate platform with many performance parts and accessories available; while the same can be said for the Savage. The Savage differs in that the firing pin cocking piece travels down the side of the action and the bolt head floats, keeping both locking lugs in contact with the receiver. The Remington cocking piece travels down the bottom of the receiver in line with the locking lugs. When cocked the rear of the bolt is slightly lifted so that the top locking lug is slightly canted away from contact with the receiver, upon firing the rear of the bolt drops allowing the top lug to pivot downward to make contact with the receiver causing a bit of vibration. This is why some, including me, have the bolt raceway reamed and the bolt fitted with cam shaped double sleeves to keep the bolt in alignment. This is not a problem for 99% of practical shooting, but the Savage design avoids the problem altogether. The new Savage rifles also come with a .062" diameter firing pin, which prevents primer cratering, while the Remington will require having the firing pin bushed and the pin ground to size or replaced to gain this feature.

The other two differences are that the Remington will require a couple of disassembly tools to maintain the bolt easily and safely. While the Savage bolt, in fact the entire firing mechanism can be completely disassembled with a hex key set, a gunsmith's screwdriver set and a 1/16" punch. The Savage extractor can be replaced with nothing more than a thumb (hopefully you bought a 100 little 1/8" ball bearings from http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PRO...gBalls/Kit8589 for when the detent ball goes into low earth orbit. 100 Cost $5.00, less than two Savage balls.). The ejector can be replaced with the 1/16" punch in about 5 minutes. Remington's will require a bit more work or modifications to allow similar field repairs. In truth, I have never had a Remington or Savage extractor, or any other part, fail in the field in 50 years of shooting, but things happen.

While all of this is splitting hairs, and only of interest to madmen, Englishmen and rifle loonies, it's just something to consider. Either rifle will provide you with years, maybe decades of service, until you gain enough skill to out-shoot the rifle; that's where the serious expense and fun begin.

[ar15barrels]

At this price point, should I really need aftermarket support? Rifle, scope, maybe eventually bi-pod... What else would I possibly want in aftermarket?

Need/Want are two entirely different things.
At first, you won't NEED anything else.
Later, you may WANT to be able to swap parts out.
You will find that there are easily 10x more options for 700's than there are for savages.

Also, the Remington action cycles smoother/easier than the Savage.

[2W2X1]

Wrangler John, thank you for the well thought response. I had not considered the twist rate implications. I need a sanity check from you all with tons more experience than I. Practice knowledge of disassembly and tools required to do so are worth gold my friend. Thanks for the info...