See thru scope mounts

[carlospicywiener]

I'm hoping someone can help with a problem I have with a new scope set up.

I've got a Winchester 670 in .30-06 with iron sights however want to mount a scope as well. I bought a set of see-thru scope mounts so that I could keep the irons and add an inexpensive scope. I took it to the range today and couldn't hit paper with it. I've adjusted the scope elevation all the way down and am still in the dirt. I'd guess I'm around 18" off at 50 yards(!) Am I missing something? I decided to stop wasting ammo and went out and bought a laser borescope and am certain I'm nearly a foot off in elevation at just 25 yards.

So, what do I do next? Is it possibly a limitation in the scopes adjustment?

This rifle is going hunting with me in a week and I need to have it dialed in or...

Thanks in advance for your help

Jim

[lewdogg21]

What scope and mounts are you using? Frankly I think see thru mounts on a big game rifle are more trouble than they are worth. They put the scope plane up too high.

[ElvenSoul]

You might have one mounted backwards

[Divernhunter]

Please see my post in the optics section where this post belongs.
It goes someing like this.
See-thru mounts are a sure sign of a novice that knows little to nothing about rifle optics.
They put your head in an un-natural position and do not allow a proper(if any) cheek weld.
If you use a proper scope(3X9X40, 3.5X10X40 up to 4X12X40 you will not need or even want the open sights.
If you are using a cheap scope the best thig to do is carry a screwdriver to remove it when it falls apart. Then use the open sights until you get a good scope.
Buy once---Cry once. Get a quality scope and the lowest mounts which do not allow the scope to touch the barrel and you will have a good rig that will last you for several lives.
One more bit of advise: Plan ahead and you will have time to correct your mistakes. Believe in the PPPPPP idea.
Depending when you plan to hunt I may be able to help you get it set up if you want.

[kentactic]

If your starting with a cheap scope no further diagnosis is needed. A foot off at 25 yards is 48 MOA. Either you went down when you should have gone up or its something else. The direction means bullet impact UP or bullet impact DOWN. So if your low you need to go UP.

Buy a quality scope, normal high quality rings and base (not see through junk) OR buy a high quality quick release style mount. Do some research as many quick change systems don't hold zero.

I wouldn't even try to shoot a gun eith a cheap scope and mounting system. Its destine to make me look bad.

[carlospicywiener]

Thanks for the advice guys-critical as it sometimes was

I don't enjoy shopping the bargain bin for scopes but had limited funds being Christmas and all.... No way I'm going to short change my 3 year old's presents so that daddy can get a new scope. I bought a Simmons pro hunter. It had good reviews so....I went for it.

As far as the see-thru scope mounts: The iron sights sit very high and I either needed to get rid of them, or get above them. I have heard of some people leaving them on (on AR's anyways) and "co-witnessing" but that didn't sound desirable to me. I figured I'd give it a try. For whatever its worth, I was comfortable shooting with them.

I don't know what ranges I'll be shooting at and I was told last time out they were so close to the deer they could "reach out and touch them" so iron sights sounded like they might come in handy.

I've mounted and sighted in a dozen or so scopes and have never had any difficulty but this one is giving me grief. The two main differences: this is the first see-thru mounts and, these are the cheapest components I've ever purchased.

As some have suggested, I switched the mounts to see if there was a difference and, if so, its negligible. Mounts are "Wide view" and only about $25. There are no markings on them that I can see.

So, I'm wondering if I've just got defective mounts or scope or if I'm missing something else...

[kentactic]

Thanks for the advice guys-critical as it sometimes was

I don't enjoy shopping the bargain bin for scopes but had limited funds being Christmas and all.... No way I'm going to short change my 3 year old's presents so that daddy can get a new scope. I bought a Simmons pro hunter. It had good reviews so....I went for it.

As far as the see-thru scope mounts: The iron sights sit very high and I either needed to get rid of them, or get above them. I have heard of some people leaving them on (on AR's anyways) and "co-witnessing" but that didn't sound desirable to me. I figured I'd give it a try. For whatever its worth, I was comfortable shooting with them.

I don't know what ranges I'll be shooting at and I was told last time out they were so close to the deer they could "reach out and touch them" so iron sights sounded like they might come in handy.

I've mounted and sighted in a dozen or so scopes and have never had any difficulty but this one is giving me grief. The two main differences: this is the first see-thru mounts and, these are the cheapest components I've ever purchased.

As some have suggested, I switched the mounts to see if there was a difference and, if so, its negligible. Mounts are "Wide view" and only about $25. There are no markings on them that I can see.

So, I'm wondering if I've just got defective mounts or scope or if I'm missing something else...

It could be faulty gear or incorrectly installed. You could try tapping on the scope with something hard to ensure the reticle isn't sticking while you make adjustments. If its really cold out that could make it stick among many things.

[carlospicywiener]

The receiver isn't level. This puts the rear mount significantly lower then the front. Maybe this isn't uncommon but I've never experienced it before and wasn't looking for it. The rings indicate they are for this rifle but they are of the same height so don't compensate for the different mounting heights. I assume better quality or a one piece mount would.

I have since read a different post where KenL had a Savage and kept his tall open sights and it didn't interfere with the scope view so maybe I should just head that route and forget about the see-thru.

[Divernhunter]

If it is a 2 piece mount then you have your problem. One should be shorter than the other.

As far as needing open sights when close. The closest deer I ever shot was 3 FEET. I actually had to step back so I could shoulder the rifle. I use a 3X9X40 scope and was able to make the shot. Same with deer 20 feet to 50 yards. My daughter shot her 2nd buck this year at about 20 FEET with the same model scope.
It sure sounds like you have done very little hunting and even less tagging out. This is my reason for my straight-up advise.
You could buy far worse scopes than the Simmons.

I do find it hard to believe you can shoot the rifle with proper form and use that type of mounts. Try this: Be sure the rifle is unloaded. With bolt actions remove the bolt. Close your eyes. Shoulder the rifle with a proper head placement/cheek weld. Open your eye(s) and if you are not looking correctly thru the scope it is not mounted correctly for you. This includes you needing to move your head up or closer or farther away to get the complete and proper scope picture. I have money that says it will not happen with your current set-up.
With the scope as you are trying to set it up you will miss game sooner or later. Same goes with using scope flip-up caps. I have/had(he died) friends who did not listen to me and one came home empty from a $7000 elk hunt due to the scope caps and the only shot he had for one. If you are concerned about dirt etc get a lens pen and carry it with you. They work fine. I always carry one when hunting/target shooting. It came in real handy in Africa when riding in the back of the truck all day.
If you need to remove the rear sight to get the scope lower then do so. I have done so on more than one rifle.

I can look as I might have bases/rings for that rifle if you want.

[Chaos47]

Just say no to see thrus!
Friends don't let friends use see thrus!
Etc Etc

They generally mount your scope too high causing the exact issue you are having. Besides zeroing issues they can result in improper cheek weld.
Also they are generally some of the most flimsy and least solid mounts out there.

Sad to say it but few ever successfully scope and manage to use irons.
Pick one and go with it is the general advice any time see thrus come up.

[ElvenSoul]

Yup why I like 2-10 scope for hunting.

Close shots and enough to see for the long shots.

[carlospicywiener]

It looks like I'll be tossing the see-thrus in the trash.

My hunting experience IS limited to a few hog hunts with my Bushmaster .450 and a 1x-4x Burris. I remember having anxiety over selecting the right rig for my first hunting trip ever. I knew I wanted something with good knockdown power but didn't know what ranges I'd be shooting at. The 1x-4x Burris did a good job as I shot one hog at about 20 feet and the other at about 75 yards. Anyway, this is my first deer trip and again, I didn't know the ranges to expect but wanted to be ready for a longer shot with the 3x-9x but thought the see-thrus would be good if I was right on top of them. Maybe I was overthinking it.

So, DivernHunter, if you've got an extra set up that'll work with the 670 I'd be interested. I believe it to be compatible with a Winchester 70.

Thanks again for all the input

[Dinosaur Jr]

I'm hoping someone can help with a problem I have with a new scope set up.

I've got a Winchester 670 in .30-06 with iron sights however want to mount a scope as well. I bought a set of see-thru scope mounts so that I could keep the irons and add an inexpensive scope. I took it to the range today and couldn't hit paper with it. I've adjusted the scope elevation all the way down and am still in the dirt. I'd guess I'm around 18" off at 50 yards(!) Am I missing something? I decided to stop wasting ammo and went out and bought a laser borescope and am certain I'm nearly a foot off in elevation at just 25 yards.

So, what do I do next? Is it possibly a limitation in the scopes adjustment?

This rifle is going hunting with me in a week and I need to have it dialed in or...

Thanks in advance for your help

Jim

(1) Get rid of those "see thru" rings.
(2) Get a proper scope base for your firearm: suggestion http://www.midwayusa.com/product/711...-770-70a-matte Note how one base is taller than the other...for the Winchester 670
(3) Get proper rings for your receiver that will place the scope bell as close to the bore as possible.
(4) Put it all together with an in/lb torque wrench and tighten to spec only.

[russ69]

As others have said. Dump the see-thru mounts. Mount the new scope and then pull out the bolt and look down the bore. Adjust the scope until the bore view and the scope view are the same.

[NapalmCheese]

Dump the scope mounts, spend the next week practicing with your iron sights to the point that you can hit a paper plate at 100 yards in a field position, go hunting. Save up for better rings and mounts for next time.

Then, practice lots long before you are headed out so that you have the requisite confidence to pull the trigger knowing that you and your rifle can put the bullet where you want it.