Shot ONE really nice group this weekend...

[postal]

Yea that is what dimes are for

Covering up your flyer with a dime?






Kidding!!!!! Kidding!!!!!

[Happyhappycamper]

Covering up your flyer with a dime?






Kidding!!!!! Kidding!!!!!

That is exactly what I did there. 9 rds + the flyer

[diver160651]

Four shot groups are not statistically significant. Re-confirm with 10 shot groups. That will be a lot closer to real world results.

OMG


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[damndave]

hahhahaha, this is funny.

[postal]

That is exactly what I did there. 9 rds + the flyer

LOL!!!!!! I said it as a joke.... Didnt know you were serious!

Another thing to add to my 'bag of tricks!' LOL!

[ExtremeX]

Now every time I see a coin in group shots I am going to suspect a flyer…

[postal]

Mitutoyo calipers are large enough to show the group size and hide a flyer too- depending on the location of the flyer.....

[Justintoxicated]

I think the quote is dumb too.

Shoot for groups and find your load.

Measure the velocity of the bullets that group best.

Then you can calculate trajectory at different distances. Or take notes on holdover or adjustments when you attempt to shoot different ranges.

It only take one shot to zero your scope and it's at that point no harder to hit the bullseye (not including calculating wind etc)

[thegiff]

Suddenly all the photos with a dime or other coinage make sense!

Whats a "real world result" that I should be shooting 10 round groups for? I don't understand the point of that comment.

[Merc1138]

Suddenly all the photos with a dime or other coinage make sense!

Well of course. You start your 5 shot group, get a flyer with one of the first 4 shots, and it magically becomes an amazing 3 shot group with a coin on it

[Metal God]

Sorry but I think I worded and put sentences in the wrong order . Lets see if I can clarify .

First off I say a group must be from the same string in a certain amount of time . I say this because if ii's not the same string it's not a group . That to me is just common sense . The timed part just has to do with forcing you to shoot A group rather then just picking your best group you shot . Also the fact there has to be a cut off to where your shooting the next group . I've heard guys say If you take one shot per hour in a four hour time period . Thats still a 4 shot group . Yes but not to me .

When I said

shoot them all in the same string 30sec or less apart . I don't like to heat my barrels up that much so what I do to see how well the riffle shoots . You can do this with any number of shots 1 , 3 , 5 what ever .

That was really two different parts that I smashed together

It should read :

I don't like to heat my barrels up that much so what I do to see how well the riffle shoots . . Shoot your group then place an identical target over the target you just shot then shoot another group . Repeat as many times as you like . You can do this with any number of shots 1 , 3 , 5 what ever . When done remove all the targets but the very first one you shot . That target now represents how you and the rifle really shoot because you shot every bullet though that target . I like to do this with three 4 shot groups . That gives me a 12 shot group and tells me How I really shoot with the rifle .

No such thing as a flyer ! For this I'm just glad I was taught and or learned from people that don't lie to them selves . You shot the flyer therefore it's part of your group period . I believe when the shot is going to need to count . You should base your ability to make that shot on how well you shoot including the flyer Not how good you shoot when you take the "flyer" out .

You don't rise to the occasion and make the shot, you sink to your lowest level of training and hopefully it is good enough to make the shot.

[postal]

I guess it depends on if you're testing the rifle, or you.... as to that 'flyer'.

People that put a lot of rounds down range, know FOR SURE when they pulled the trigger, if it was a good shot, or they screwed it up.

The screw up- pulled shot.... 'flyer' should be included to evaluate the shooters skill.

However, testing the accuracy of the rifle alone, (or working up ammo) it should be ignored.

Your approach also ignores some well accepted logic on testing ammo by using the "round robin" method of optimal charge weight. or "OCW".

The test is often done by shooting 1 shot in succession- of varying powder charges, at specific targets for each charge.

For example,
I'm going to test 308- 175 SMK at 2.810" COAL with varget.
5 rounds of each charge.
44.3, 44.6, 44.9, 45.2, 45.5, 45.8, 46.1

Thats 35 rounds total to shoot, and 5 rounds for each group of 7.

There will be 7 targets.
1 shot of each charge, at each target. --- meaning, the first 7 shots, will be 1 single shot on EACH target, for 1 shot of each 5 shot group.

Repeat 4 more times. Spaced out in enough time that the barrel doesnt get too hot, and the shooter has breaks in between to stay focused.

This reduces the errors induced from fatigue, and barrel temp affecting a single group.

I already loaded the ammo, and will be slinging this on Sunday after a match to determine a new powder charge to make up for throat wear and loss of velocity.

With 5 shot groups for my test, even if I know I pull a shot, I still have 4 shots to judge for data.

[Metal God]

People that put a lot of rounds down range, know FOR SURE when they pulled the trigger, if it was a good shot, or they screwed it up.

The screw up- pulled shot.... 'flyer' should be included to evaluate the shooters skill.

However, testing the accuracy of the rifle alone, (or working up ammo) it should be ignored.

I agree for the most part . We call that calling your shot . The thing is , The shooter must call the shot corectly . Meaning : when the shooter says oops I flinched or pulled the shot . The shooter must say where the shot hit before looking at the target . If the shooter says I pulled it low and left and the shot was really high left . Was that the shooter , the rifle or the load that had that wrong ? To call your shot the shooter must see where the cross hairs were on the target the moment the rifle fires .( yes I know they were right on the center of the bull or I wouldn't have pulled the trigger ) lol , Thats what I used to think . A lot of people blink when the gun is fired . That makes it almost impossible to call your shot . If the shooter does not remember seeing the muzzle blast . They most likely blinked . I will add it's harder to call your shot at 100yds then it is at 3 or 4 hundred .

I've never done the round robin thing . My rifle is almost alway well fouled when I do load development and I never start a sting with my barrel more then 10 degrees over ambient temp . I was told/taught you do the round robin to make sure each group had the exact same barrel conditions . It's a Valid approach and I have nothing negative to say about it .

[BrianRodela]

The trick is not to use a coin!!