Shot ONE really nice group this weekend...

[Californio]

My stick is 26" with a 1x9 twist. I use FGMM 69 gr. SMK as the control. I can spin 75gr BTHP but the groups open up, like your photo. 69gr. SMK is the cats meow.

So I laddered 69gr. SMK with Varget, Lapua Brass and Federal Match Primers to get a round that beats the FGMM in group consistency.

You should be able to get close to one hole groups at 100 with the correct load.

[LynnJr]

"Groups are nothing but luck making the same mistakes or close to the same mistakes in a row, good shooting is hitting what you wanted to hit, EVERYTIME"



Who ever said that never shot against Tony Boyer

[postal]

"Groups are nothing but luck making the same mistakes or close to the same mistakes in a row, good shooting is hitting what you wanted to hit, EVERYTIME"



Who ever said that never shot against Tony Boyer

Whoever said that sucks at shooting groups and trying to save face. Musta been a mall ninja.

[CK_32]

Whoever said that sucks at shooting groups and trying to save face. Musta been a mall ninja.

A .2" group doesn't do much good if it's 4' to the left would it? I feel only a mall ninja would notice the group over placement.


I think the moral of the story was anyone can shoot a tiny group once or twice. A good shooter can do it time and time and and puts it where he aimed. If I remember correctly the guy who said it was a long time competition shooter over on the hide.

[postal]

A .2" group doesn't do much good if it's 4' to the left would it? I feel only a mall ninja would notice the group over placement.


I think the moral of the story was anyone can shoot a tiny group once or twice. A good shooter can do it time and time and and puts it where he aimed. If I remember correctly the guy who said it was a long time competition shooter over on the hide.

Semantics aint it? A tiny group is putting multiple shots on one spot where he aimed.

[ExtremeX]

A .2" group doesn't do much good if it's 4' to the left would it? I feel only a mall ninja would notice the group over placement.


I think the moral of the story was anyone can shoot a tiny group once or twice. A good shooter can do it time and time and and puts it where he aimed. If I remember correctly the guy who said it was a long time competition shooter over on the hide.

[Merc1138]

"Groups are nothing but luck making the same mistakes or close to the same mistakes in a row, good shooting is hitting what you wanted to hit, EVERYTIME" - Forgot who said it but words of truth.

Whoever said that is an idiot.

If you're trying to shoot a 1" target and hit it every time, you won't be able to if you can't shoot a 1" group. If you're trying to shoot a half inch target, can't do it every time if you can't shoot a half inch group. The only difference is whether or not you can hit the target once, or multiple times.

[CK_32]

Semantics aint it? A tiny group is putting multiple shots on one spot where he aimed.

No not exactly. A "group" says nothing of location on target but referres to relation of a shots with in one another. Nothing more nothing less. Like OPs "group" I can assure you he was not aiming low left, but that doesn't take away from the "grouping" it self. It's still small no matter where located.


But i came to post my quote as a drive by to get some thinking of actual importance of a group.

But I'll close with this, Good shooting OP now get the in the bull and your golden.

[CK_32]

That quote is going way over your heads and you guys are looking wayyyy too deep into that lol

And merc. If OP had a small group 2" from POA.... Wouldn't he never hit the 1" target in the first place?


"I'm responsible for what I say, not for what others understand."

Hopefully some will get my point. If not I got something from when I read it the first time.

[Metal God]

You do understand many people intentionally dial off the bullseye when shooting for groups so they don’t tear up their aiming point…

Not only that . When I'm doing load development I often take 2 or 3 different loadings and 6 or 7 different charges in each one .

Meaning I'll have IMR 4064 pushing 178gr A-MAX in Rem cases in one lot . IMR 4895 pushing 175gr smk in WCC case in another and yet a whole other load in another lot .

Not only do I get some POI shifts from each charge weight in the same lot . I often get a big POI shift when changing to a completely different load . Because of this I don't care where they hit as long as they are in a nice tight group . Once I get a perfect load shooting nice little groups I zero my rifle to that load . I then knock the bull out every time .

[RobG]

I wouldn't worry about OAL unless you are shooting long bullets like the 75's and above. The OAL becomes a problem fitting into the magwell with the long bullets. To get the distance off the lands you are actually measuring the ogive to land distance, not overall length. Sinclair makes a great tool to measure this distance using the bullet and a fired case. I would give the 69smk a try. You may or may not be able to go heavier/longer. The bullet length is what becomes the issue in stabilization. The GK is a good hunting bullet but, its not a target bullet.

[ExtremeX]

Not only do I get some POI shifts from each charge weight in the same lot . I often get a big POI shift when changing to a completely different load . Because of this I don't care where they hit as long as they are in a nice tight group . Once I get a perfect load shooting nice little groups I zero my rifle to that load . I then knock the bull out every time .

In addition to that... those POA/POI differences generate usable data to help understand the differences between the different loads...

I find it very important NOT to change or chase a zero during load development; especially if I have a well established load zeroed to compare it to.

For example one of my new target loads is shooting .2 mil lower than my primary load, which instantly gives me data to record between the two different loads I use.

Everything printed on target is information to me. Once you collect good data, first round hits become easier to accomplish.

[postal]

No not exactly. A "group" says nothing of location on target but referres to relation of a shots with in one another. Nothing more nothing less. Like OPs "group" I can assure you he was not aiming low left, but that doesn't take away from the "grouping" it self. It's still small no matter where located.

I see.....

I dont shoot benchrest. LOLOLOLLLLL!!!

My POI/POA are supposed to be the same.

So we've solved the riddle of the stupid quote....

[Merc1138]

That quote is going way over your heads and you guys are looking wayyyy too deep into that lol

And merc. If OP had a small group 2" from POA.... Wouldn't he never hit the 1" target in the first place?


"I'm responsible for what I say, not for what others understand."

Hopefully some will get my point. If not I got something from when I read it the first time.

POA isn't necessarily the target. You're assuming that the POA isn't intentionally shifted from POI, or that such a feat would be impossible if the POA matched the POI, which is wrong(unless the problem is shooting out your POA, so if your POA isn't the same as POI, you aren't destroying your POA in the process of shooting).

Why are some of you guys so hung up on the idea of POA not having to always match POI? Do you not understand how the adjustments for your sights/scope work? It's an extremely simple task for the OP to adjust his POA to match POI so the group is centered on the paper. I guess this is difficult for you?

[postal]

POA isn't necessarily the target. You're assuming that the POA isn't intentionally shifted from POI, or that such a feat would be impossible if the POA matched the POI, which is wrong(unless the problem is shooting out your POA, so if your POA isn't the same as POI, you aren't destroying your POA in the process of shooting).

Why are some of you guys so hung up on the idea of POA not having to always match POI? Do you not understand how the adjustments for your sights/scope work? It's an extremely simple task for the OP to adjust his POA to match POI so the group is centered on the paper. I guess this is difficult for you?

I agree with all you've posted, except in this case, the OP's 2nd outting, it's possible *he* doesnt know how.