Need some info on lever guns

[splithoof]

Poot! .44's are way more fun!

Randy

Apples has a nifty .44 Marlin that I tried out; really, really fun carbine that pointed naturally, was smooth, had excellent sights, handy, and the bullets seemed to find their way to our steel without effort.
I'm going to try to mentally justify yet another firearm by blaming him for that. Hope he forgives me!

[200Apples]

SplitHoof, I must accept responsibility for that. At least that particular .44 Magnum lever carbine has a decent factory recoil pad on it! which makes shooting full-throttle over-the-counter .44 Magnum (240 grain slug at 1250+ from a pistol, add 150-200 fps from a carbine) not too uncomfortable.

It is the .44 Magnum from a carbine with a steel buttplate! that is annoying, so I now load Magnum brass to .44-40 ballistics (200 grain slug to 1100 from a 20" carbine barrel) for my .44 Browning '92 and it is a hoot!

That is just some of the great and many reasons to handload. Tone down the Mag rifle loads for the steel buttplate stocks, and turn up the .44 Special pistol loads halfway from Anemic to Magnum for use in these stout Ruger Blackhawks.

Too much fun!

[splithoof]

That is just some of the great and many reasons to handload. Tone down the Mag rifle loads for the steel buttplate stocks, and turn up the .44 Special pistol loads halfway from Anemic to Magnum for use in these stout Ruger Blackhawks.

Too much fun!

I would figure that with your Blackhawks, the only limiting factor is how far you can push a .44 Special case; if modern manufacturers strengthen the web portion, should be no problem achieving your comfort/performance level for a given load. If you're not loosening primer pockets, splitting necks, or bulging the cases, I think you should be fine.
Got to get back out & shoot!...it's been nine days since things started rolling, and when the surgeon & physical therapist say "go", I'll be out there (with help of course).

[200Apples]

True that, but with our latest LabRadar session last month, I have arrived at a good load for those .44 Special Blackhawks. The additional two-tenths grain Unique over Skeeter's favorite load is about the limit of comfortable shooting but that delivers some serious punch on target.

Now it's time to work on my rifle loads (and my marksmanship). And with W.R.'s fine advice, get my Williams peep mounted and then get hold of one or two Lyman peeps. I want one on my .45-70.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Chris: don't bother with the Williams Sights just go on Ebay and win a NOS Lyman 66LA. Night and Day difference and well worth the extra $. I paid $100 for one and $125 for the other. Both were used but still real nice. These sights allow you to quickly make elevation adjustments in the field, and then return to your mechanical zero, other sights must be cranked up and down with the screws and some even require you to count clicks. I've had them all and the Lyman's and Series 80 Redfield's are just better sights. If you are just going to sight the gun in for one load and leave it, like if is a dedicated hunting rifle, the the others are fine. Skinner sights are excellent for that purpose. The problems start when you start moving them around and then try to get them back to zero.



Make sure it is an older steel sight as the new ones are all Aluminum and have the same problem as the Williams sights have. They don't repeat very well.

I use XS White Line Front Sights on these guns as they show up better against most backgrounds. That came from Brian Pearce. Obviously these sights would be excellent for hunting Leopards or Cheatahs .



Good luck. How'd the "Dog Wash" go?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Split hoof: Modern .44 Special cases and especially from Premium Brands like Starline have exactly the same web profile as .44 Magnum cases. The only thing that is different is the length of the case and the head stamp. This has been true since way back as I have Winchester .44 Special cases that date back to the late 70's. I don't know when they got rid of the Balloon Head case design but it was along time ago. Nothing you bought now would be a problem with any sane load, even Keith Loads.

Also these Marlin Rifles should cycle both length rounds interchangeably.

Randy

[splithoof]

Split hoof: Modern .44 Special cases and especially from Premium Brands like Starline have exactly the same web profile as .44 Magnum cases. The only thing that is different is the length of the case and the head stamp. This has been true since way back as I have Winchester .44 Special cases that date back to the late 70's. I don't know when they got rid of the Balloon Head case design but it was along time ago. Nothing you bought now would be a problem with any sane load, even Keith Loads.

Also these Marlin Rifles should cycle both length rounds interchangeably.

Randy

Thank you for the info.
I only load .44 Magnum between those two, so when crafting loads for my S&W 69, I've simply loaded light, and not nearly as heavy or fast as I load for my RSRH or 77/44.
I do have a bunch of Special brass; keeping it separate from the Magnum stuff avoids potential issues in the loading shack. Need to get one of the Dillon's switched over, now that I've figured a good load that works in most of my .44's.
I think I'll also section one of those Special cases to look at the web section.

[Den60]

Thanks everyone for taking time to share your expertise.

Golfish... My current handgun calipers are 38/357..9mm.... And. 40

So are 38/357 cartridges exactly the same between the rifle and the handgun?

You definitely need to pair the .357 up with a lever gun of the same caliber. You can use the same round for handgun and rifle but Hornady also makes a round exclusively for lever guns called the LeveRevolution.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Poot! .44's are way more fun!

Randy

Negative. Try a .45 Colt lever rifle sometime. Piece of cake! I know, I have one and shoot it a lot. A .44 mag with full house loads can be a bit sporty, but, nothing dramatic.

MLC

I wish I could try those calibers. I had a 30-30 Win and it was not fun.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Split go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEpYQMdnxHY

and watch me load 5ea. .44 Mag Mid Range loads. Keith Boolit and 8.0 gr of W231. This is a shameless plug for my Hand Press!

Works in either my Ruger SBH Bisley or the Rifle.

My .44 Special Load is Keith Boolit and 6.0 gr of W231, and this load shoots to the sights in both my Ruger BH Bisley and S&W 696. It's a cream puff load in the rifle but a good plinking round none the less. I started at 5.5 gr but it shot way too high and just increasing .5 gr brought it right down to the sights.

Lots of talk about Tube Fed Henry's in this thread. The problem with the tube feed is that if you are being shot at by Bandits or Indians and you are laying behind a log or your horse for cover it is very difficult to load the cartridges without sticking up and drawing fire. You also can't just top off the magazine like you can with a side loading gate.

With a .22 it doesn't make that much difference because you generally aren't defending your life with a. 22. However if you were defending your life with a .22 the problem would show itself just as fast as it does with the larger calibers.

If I had to defend my life with a .22, It would be my Ruger 10/22 with illegal 25 round magazines. with that much firepower I'd be in a much better position than with a .22 Levergun that I couldn't reload fast enough to save my butt.

For that purpose better choices are Shotguns or Semi Auto Carbines anyway.

Randy.

[200Apples]

W.R.B.

If I had to defend my life with a .22, It would be my Ruger 10/22 with illegal 25 round magazines. with that much firepower I'd be in a much better position than with a .22 Levergun that I couldn't reload fast enough to save my butt.

Remember! that thanks to the Honorable Judge "Saint" Roger T. Benitez for one week in April, 2019, we could legally purchase and acquire "standard capacity" magazines. I now own *one or two* Ruger BX-25s for use in my sole, walnut-stocked 10/22. There's a Lyman peep available for it, too.

The dog wash went fine. It was the haircut following that was messy... but overall, he looks a bit more trim. This will hold him over until the (professional) groomer opens their doors soon.

Pardon the threadjack!

[200Apples]

I wish I could try those calibers. I had a 30-30 Win and it was not fun.

125 grain sjhps to typical .30-30 velocities are pleasant enough. What I want to try next are 170 grain cast to near-subsonic speeds. Plenty of momentum with 25% of the recoil! (but just half the distance, unfortunately)

Hee.

[pennstater]

Once I cleaned my keyboard and screen from spraying beer on 'em, I had to tackle the "laying behind the log" and holding off maurading Indians and the like with my Henry. Gad, that cracked me up. No wild, attacking Injuns to sweat over, so the tube fed doesn't bother me. Heck, I/ we have been loading tube fed .22's for ever. It all boils down to what we like at the moment.

MLC

[splithoof]

125 grain sjhps to typical .30-30 velocities are pleasant enough. What I want to try next are 170 grain cast to near-subsonic speeds. Plenty of momentum with 25% of the recoil! (but just half the distance, unfortunately)

Hee.

Trail Boss powder would work great for that I'd bet. I used it in developing plinking loads for the .375 H&H, so I could learn to run the rifle without taking a beating over a day of shooting.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Once I cleaned my keyboard and screen from spraying beer on 'em, I had to tackle the "laying behind the log" and holding off maurading Indians and the like with my Henry. Gad, that cracked me up. No wild, attacking Injuns to sweat over, so the tube fed doesn't bother me. Heck, I/ we have been loading tube fed .22's for ever. It all boils down to what we like at the moment.

MLC

The whole reason that Winchester came up with the side loading gate is because of the Henry Rifles method of loading which was similar to tube fed guns of today. You literally had to stand up or hold the gun vertically to load it.

Since this was during the Civil War Era being shot while standing up during a battle was a distinct possibility. The Winchester 1866 is essentially a Henry rifle with a Side Loading Gate and a Fore End. The Henry rifle couldn't have a Fore End because of the follower in the magazine had to go down the underside of the mag tube. However you could tell how many rounds that were left by simply looking at the position of the follower and hopefully find cover and buy enough time to reload it.

The 1866 allowed you to stuff rounds into the gun while you were running for cover or behind cover which was a huge advantage over the Henry Rifle

I always liked the looks of the original Henry Rifle over the M66.

Randy