Is my grouping ok?

[tigerpan]

If you can consistently shooting 1.5, it’s probably your rifle and ammo.

[kevins750]

I might have missed it, what are you using to support the rifle?

Bipod , rest, back pack.

Sand sock, leather bag?

[Diversity210]

I was using a cadwell bench rest and a rabit ear leather bag

[TomReloaded]

I would buy a few more boxes of good quality ammo. If the rifle cant shoot an inch at 100, I would sell it. I'm not trying to be snobby, but 1 inch from a bolt action using alright ammo is a low bar. My very cheap savage axis will hold about an inch all day long at 100yd, with decent ammo.

Thats also an amazing scope setup, but thats a LOT of magnification at 100 yards. I've been told I could use less magnification, but I use 12x at 300 yards and like it. 24x at 1/3rd the distance is getting a little crazy. Honestly, it sounds like the LBS guy way way oversold you. A $125 leupold freedom scope would have been perfect for that rifle, on some $20 matching rings. Thats enough glass to shoot half an inch at 100 all day long, for many years.

[Jeepergeo]

Your groupings are reasonable if not good for that rifle and ammunition. If you buy some match grade ammo, you might take a quarter to half inch off those numbers, and maybe a bit more once the rifle settles in.

I used to hunt exclusively with Rem CoreLoc ammo and had great results with it in the field and the range. Now I'm paying 2X or more for lead free ammo and results are generally equal to or worse than the Rem CoreLoc.

[RNE228]

Don't rule out the shooter(sorry OP...). Or barrel profile and time between shots. Not unusual for a sporter taper to start opening the group up if the barrel arms. Even good quality ammo will group different rifle to rifle.

I would buy a few more boxes of good quality ammo. If the rifle cant shoot an inch at 100, I would sell it. I'm not trying to be snobby, but 1 inch from a bolt action using alright ammo is a low bar. My very cheap savage axis will hold about an inch all day long at 100yd, with decent ammo.

[Diversity210]

I would buy a few more boxes of good quality ammo. If the rifle cant shoot an inch at 100, I would sell it. I'm not trying to be snobby, but 1 inch from a bolt action using alright ammo is a low bar. My very cheap savage axis will hold about an inch all day long at 100yd, with decent ammo.

Thats also an amazing scope setup, but thats a LOT of magnification at 100 yards. I've been told I could use less magnification, but I use 12x at 300 yards and like it. 24x at 1/3rd the distance is getting a little crazy. Honestly, it sounds like the LBS guy way way oversold you. A $125 leupold freedom scope would have been perfect for that rifle, on some $20 matching rings. Thats enough glass to shoot half an inch at 100 all day long, for many years.

Its not just for a hundred yards. I just zeroed the rifle at hundred yards and shot a few groups afterwards. I have 1200 yard ranges in my area. So the plan was to have a scope that would progress with me as I progress to longer distances.

[Preston-CLB]

OP, try to find someone who is an experience rifle shooter can go with you to the range and observe what you are doing.

An experienced observer can see things in your technique that you are not aware of; breathing, your hold, trigger pull, cheek weld, etc.. There are lots of variables you need to control.

Ammo: Try different manufacturers and bullet weights to see what your rifle likes.

My Savage M10, .223 will shoot sub 1"-5 shot groups at 100 yds all day when I do my part. For some reason, it likes a slightly warm barrel, and a little fouling. Yours may be different.

The next time you hit the range, take some photos of your groups and then post them here. Don't be shy: we've all been there, believe me.

Have fun, and be safe.
-P

[pacrat]

The Vortex Precision Matched rings are rebranded Seekins Precision rings. They are very high quality rings and do NOT need to be lapped. If there's any misalignment it's not the rings it's the base. Lapping those rings is a sure way to mess them up.

To which I will reply with a repost from this thread. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...4#post23913814

Now to jump from the land of unrealistic blissful optimism into the land of reality.

A typical ONE PC base setup includes (7) separate components. Reciever - Base - 2 lower - 2 upper rings - Scope. Which become (8) components with 2 pc bases like I prefer for hunting rifles. Each of those components ADD to the "tolerance stack". Nothing is perfect.

Adding 10 to 20 minutes to lap rings during a "PROPER" scope mounting procedure. Assures that ALL of those other minute, tolerance variations don't influence how solid and stress free the final mounting is.

[ar15barrels]

To which I will reply with a repost from this thread. https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...4#post23913814

And with all that, the major factor in how flat current production (CNC machines) bases sit on rifles is primarily influenced by the fit to the reciever.
Without bedding, a base and receiver that do not fit will cause the base to bend to the reciever if there is not any bedding keeping the base straight.

In the OP's case, the top of his reciever is flat and unlikely to have any problems.

More and more guns these days have picatinny bases integral to the reciever while means you get rid of one more set of variables.
Also, the ring tops are not really a variable because they simply follow the scope tube which follows the ring bottoms which follows the base.
So as long as the base is straight/flat/square, high quality rings will not need lapping.

Every time I have seen rings that needed lapping, the base installation was the culprit, not the rings.

Lapping is a half-*** solution to a half-*** installed base.

[pacrat]

And with all that, the major factor in how flat current production (CNC machines) bases sit on rifles is primarily influenced by the fit to the reciever.
Without bedding, a base and receiver that do not fit will cause the base to bend to the reciever if there is not any bedding keeping the base straight.

In the OP's case, the top of his reciever is flat and unlikely to have any problems.

More and more guns these days have picatinny bases integral to the reciever while means you get rid of one more set of variables.
Also, the ring tops are not really a variable because they simply follow the scope tube which follows the ring bottoms which follows the base.
So as long as the base is straight/flat/square, high quality rings will not need lapping.

Every time I have seen rings that needed lapping, the base installation was the culprit, not the rings.

Lapping is a half-*** solution to a half-*** installed base.

And I can agree with you "in theory" that modern technology and SOPs, have made improvements, Yet nothing is perfect. And why my own Anal Retentive propensity requires that I remove as many variables as possible. Both in my rifles and ammo. Still not perfect, but nothing ever is.

I bed receiver to stock and bases, making a 3 layer rigid sandwich. And rings/scopes after lapping. Except Signatures. LocTite all screws. That eliminates all possible movement or tolerance stress. Which is mooted by lapping, after bottom rings are secure.

You can call it half-*** if you choose. But in all honesty, no one can tell if lapping is needed, until you lap. So I call it "cheap insurance" and "time well spent".

As I've said before, it only takes 15-20 minutes. And removes all doubt of any stress induced by misalignment, no matter how slight.

[ar15barrels]

no one can tell if lapping is needed, until you lap.

Yes you can.
Take a quality base that's NOT installed on a reciever.
Mount a quality set of rings such as Nightforce, Seekins, Badger or TPS.
Set a scope into the rings.
It will slide in the rings like an air bearing.
That only happens when everything is perfectly aligned.

That's the same feel you should get after lapping rings on a rifle.
If the scope slides in the rings like its on bearings, there is no stress.

This is what I normally observe when installing quality rings on to actions which have the rail machined into them vs attached with screws.



If a scope does NOT slide in the rings like it's on bearings, then lapping will help.

[yacko]

If a scope does NOT slide in the rings like it's on bearings, then lapping will help.

But--- with quality rings on a quality base... if it's a screw on base, the base should be reinstalled with bedding first- Right?

Or just plan on bedding a screw on base from the start...

[ar15barrels]

But--- with quality rings on a quality base... if it's a screw on base, the base should be reinstalled with bedding first- Right?

Or just plan on bedding a screw on base from the start...

You can start by installing the base without bedding and set the scope in the rings as a check.
If it slides freely, it's good to go without bedding.
If the scope does not slide freely, bed the base and try again.
If the scope does not slide freely after the base is bedded, lap the rings.
Make sure the rings are in the correct location on the base because you can't move them once they are lapped because you are lapping the TWIST of the base out of the RING.
Moving a lapped ring to a different spot on a base puts a twist back INTO the ring.

[Bull Elk]

Are you going to use it for hunting or the range? I wouldn't even consider selecting a scope until I knew what my intended use was. Plus you let the store employee (who cares if he is an employee or successor as you stated) talk you into a scope that you didn't appear to have much knowledge of. Do your homework before you consider buying a rifle, scope or rings. It doesn't appear that you gave any of this much thought.

I'm not trying to intentionally give you a hard time, but from my perspective, this whole story doesn't appear as if much research or planning went into it. You'll enjoy the whole process much more if you give it more thought up front.