opinions on scope

[LynnJr]

Diver
There are roughly 400 million guns in the US and very few of them are ever shot in PRS type events.
In general hunters plinkers and target shooters don't want a cluttered reticle and mil based scopes aren't needed for those situations.
I have only two scopes with reticles like Sig posted and they never get used.
The poster that goes by whitemamba has a spotting scope with the Christmas tree reticle in mils he uses for spotting at our matches and it is ideal for that purpose but I wouldn't take it on a hunting trip and I do long-range hunting despite its unpopularity.

Sigstroker
Scopes tend to be something you want to look through with your own set of eyes before purchasing.
I would look through as many as possible then shop the internet for the best deal.

[ar15barrels]

The Christmas tree appeals to me because it just seems so much faster and easier than dialing, but maybe that's more theory than reality?

Yes.
That open center reticle with the fine dot is far more useful.
Dial your elevation.
Hold your wind.

[sigstroker]

Diver
There are roughly 400 million guns in the US and very few of them are ever shot in PRS type events.
In general hunters plinkers and target shooters don't want a cluttered reticle and mil based scopes aren't needed for those situations.
I have only two scopes with reticles like Sig posted and they never get used.
The poster that goes by whitemamba has a spotting scope with the Christmas tree reticle in mils he uses for spotting at our matches and it is ideal for that purpose but I wouldn't take it on a hunting trip and I do long-range hunting despite its unpopularity.

Sigstroker
Scopes tend to be something you want to look through with your own set of eyes before purchasing.
I would look through as many as possible then shop the internet for the best deal.

If I got one of the scopes I've mentioned in this thread, it would be for PRS-ish purposes. Not necessarily in actual competition or in crazy positions, but shooting at similar types of steel.

I actually can't tell squat by looking through scopes in the store. Just for ***** and grins I looked through a Swarovski that was the cost of a nice used car, and it looked like my hundred dollar scopes to me.

[diver160651]

opinions on scope

Diver

There are roughly 400 million guns in the US and very few of them are ever shot in PRS type events.

In general hunters plinkers and target shooters don't want a cluttered reticle and mil based scopes aren't needed for those situations.

I have only two scopes with reticles like Sig posted and they never get used.

The poster that goes by whitemamba has a spotting scope with the Christmas tree reticle in mils he uses for spotting at our matches and it is ideal for that purpose but I wouldn't take it on a hunting trip and I do long-range hunting despite its unpopularity.



Sigstroker

Scopes tend to be something you want to look through with your own set of eyes before purchasing.

I would look through as many as possible then shop the internet for the best deal.

[LynnJr]

Diver
I agree with his use and his needs but didn't understand your comment on moa and why everyone doesn't use a ffp 5-25 PRS scope for everything. For hunting even at 1000 yards I prefer a scope with a very low power magnification on the low end.

Sigstroker
You can't judge a scope inside of a store because of the short distance. A $35 Barska at Big 5 looks as good as a Nightforce does at 10 yards.
Ask the salesperson if you can take the models that fit your intended use outside and look through them at a more useful distance.

I looked through several high-end spotting scopes and didn't like any of them but when I put them side by side I found a very clear winner to my needs and it was also the price of a car.

If you can get to some of the matches look through the various scopes all at the same distance and object you will more easily make up your mind.
You won't like the price but you will definitely pick your winner.

[diver160651]

Diver
I agree with his use and his needs but didn't understand your comment on moa and why everyone doesn't use a ffp 5-25 PRS scope for everything.

He asked specifically is 18x was enough and what guys are using. I put the 5-25 in context and that many of us are using 12-15 even with those except on occasion. I was NOT saying he needs to get a scope of any specific magnification, but rather where the 3-18 and the 5-25s seem to be the very best fit in direct response to the question.

Now, on the MOA response, MOA is just about dead in the environments he was inquiring about.





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[LynnJr]

[Calguns seems to have more MOA users and promoters than anywhere I've seen outside of a paper range event.]

Diver.
Most shooters want to hit what they are aiming at and mils are 3.5 times bigger than MOA so PRS is the only competition they make sense in. As Sig is wanting to shoot PRS that is fine but most shooters and most posters on Calguns don't shoot PRS so MOA is more popular.
Two stage triggers also fit that criteria.

[diver160651]

opinions on scope

Diver.

Most shooters want to hit what they are aiming at and mils are 3.5 times bigger than MOA

I highly disbelieve you do not fundamentally understand angular 6400, or whatever base we are taking about..

So I am left to believe some other strange thing would have you use the 10x component of what we use.. and then compare that to a MOA.

That’s just not how the 10 or 20 base system is used, it is the base component and why base 4 is slower to track than base 10. Why not only in PRS, NRL, but in many field disciplines, military and LE events, Mils have taken over.



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[Bicky]

[Calguns seems to have more MOA users and promoters than anywhere I've seen outside of a paper range event.]

Diver.
Most shooters want to hit what they are aiming at and mils are 3.5 times bigger than MOA so PRS is the only competition they make sense in. As Sig is wanting to shoot PRS that is fine but most shooters and most posters on Calguns don't shoot PRS so MOA is more popular.
Two stage triggers also fit that criteria.

This seems intentionally misleading. 1 click on most MOA scopes is .26" at 100 yards, on most MIL scopes it is .36". The reticle hashes on most MOA scopes are 2 MOA, 2.1" at 100; on most MIL scopes they .5 MIL, 1.8". I find it easier to think in MILs because c = 2 pi r.

[sigstroker]

Thanks, guys, for the great info. Diver probably understands better what I'm after maybe because of the discussions on the PRS match he recently held. And my trigger is single stage.

I did not realize things were that active at Cowtown. Maybe I haven't been looking at the right websites, because I was under the impression there was virtually NO PRS in AZ.

I'm not looking for an optimum scope. I wouldn't know what that is if I tripped over it. I do love a bargain though, and when I saw scopes that I know to be high quality at half-price, it got me thinking. I never had any intention of getting a scope this high-end. Then when I saw U.S. Optics also at huge discounts... The first time I'd heard of high dollar scopes was at a Soldier of Fortune gun show back in the 90's. There was this loud hammering going on, and it was the factory rep hammering nails into a board with a U.S. Optics scope.

[diver160651]

opinions on scope

I think Lynn did say something that was key. “Your eyes” need to like the reticle.. Some like trees some don’t. You can get the job done with either choice.

Many of the new reticles are running .2 mil hashes.. makes wind holds great..

Not to get too far in the weeds, but if your looking for dynamic wind estimations across a large FOF, “mil wind” is another huge advantage or reason for looking at mil based reticles.


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[longrange1]

GLASS!!!!

that is the MOST IMPORTANT thing to consider ESPECIALLY if you plan to shoot any kind of match....trust me here ive owned A LOT of different scopes and you want THE BEST glass you can get/afford....try looking through a cheap athlon(or any cheap glass) for 5-6hrs....id recommend you dont go any cheaper than a razor gen2.

power....5-25 minimum...try looking at a small target at 800yds with a 44mm 18x scope cranked all the way up...the bigger the tube the more light it lets in...the farther you turn it up the less the light gets through and the smaller the field of view gets....i know everyone says i run a 10x fixed or a 15x to a 1000yds...can it be done? sure....but why would you?

reticle choice is up to you but try running a hold over stage with single cross type reticle...get a tree!...everyone says "oh the type of reticle is to busy" well if thats the case then your not focused on shooting.
when you look through a tree at a match you are focused on the target and the POA in the tree your eye is not wondering all over scope its focused on a fixed point and you dont even see the rest of the reticle.

last...i know a guy that shoots most of our matches that owned a sig 6...he shot one match with it and sold it...food for thought while you looking for a deep discount...theres a reason they are at a deep discount and its NOT only to make room for the new ones.

[LynnJr]

This seems intentionally misleading. 1 click on most MOA scopes is .26" at 100 yards, on most MIL scopes it is .36". The reticle hashes on most MOA scopes are 2 MOA, 2.1" at 100; on most MIL scopes they .5 MIL, 1.8". I find it easier to think in MILs because c = 2 pi r.

It's not intentionally misleading it's the facts. 1/4 moa is used for hunting plinking 1/8 moa is used in alot of target scopes along with very fine crosshairs and very fine dots. You aim small to hit small and you never see mils.
Mils work well in PRS type events because of the intended targets size.
You simply don't need the same precision you do in other disciplines.
If I was shooting PRS I would use mils but as I don't I am not switching.
What is misleading is to dummy up the numbers trying to make them work when they don't.

[Bicky]

It's not intentionally misleading it's the facts. 1/4 moa is used for hunting plinking 1/8 moa is used in alot of target scopes along with very fine crosshairs and very fine dots. You aim small to hit small and you never see mils.
Mils work well in PRS type events because of the intended targets size.
You simply don't need the same precision you do in other disciplines.
If I was shooting PRS I would use mils but as I don't I am not switching.
What is misleading is to dummy up the numbers trying to make them work when they don't.

Please tell me how my numbers are incorrect. Stating that MILs were 3.5 times bigger than MOA, without the context of how they are broken up, seems to be "dummying up" the numbers.

[ar15barrels]

Stating that MILs were 3.5 times bigger than MOA, without the context of how they are broken up, seems to be "dummying up" the numbers.

It is.

1/4 moa clicks are smaller steps than 1/10 mil steps
A 1/10 mil click is about 50% more angular travel than a 1/4 moa click.
The nice part about mils being in 1/10 steps is that the overall numbers are smaller and easider to learn/remember.
For example, you might have to dial 23-1/4 moa to get to 1000yds or you could dial 6.9 mils.

What is easier to remember, 23.25 or 6.9?