Copper Ammo for Rem LTR .308

[MARKFP]

OP, I feel your concern. My brother and I are in Santa Barbara County which went lead free yours ago. We have converted to DRT ammo almost exclusively for our hunting ammo, even for our muzzle loaders. I believe they offer the caliber your requiring in cartridge and projectile form. Keep in mind there is no magic answer to what your asking, all ammo will shoot differently unless you stumble on to something, which can happen, but you need to get different ammo and try it. We currently use DRT for blacktail, elk, whitetail, muley, pronghorn, varments, and squirrel, in everything from our AR platforms to muzzle loaders. We are currently reloading calibers from 22 Nosler to .o6. Half the fun of changing ammo is the need to shoot and become more familiar with your rifle, don't be afraid to experiment, the right ammo is what works for you! Mark

[Ahansom]

I shoot 130 grn Barnes TTSX in my .308 I have had excellent results using TAC and Varget directly from Barnes load data. Once you switch to lead free bullets there's really no reason to bounce back and forth. The bullets will still work even if your not in a lead free state. Sight it in an go hunting!!!

[dirtydrew]

I shoot factory Hornady 150g GMX from my Tikka and it groups sub MOA at 100 yards.

[Garandimal]

Remington loads the 168 gr. TSX bullet in .308.

It is my West-coast field and Southern hog load abit in .30-06.




GR

[Dirtlaw]

I shoot 130 grn Barnes TTSX in my .308 I have had excellent results using TAC and Varget directly from Barnes load data. Once you switch to lead free bullets there's really no reason to bounce back and forth. The bullets will still work even if your not in a lead free state. Sight it in an go hunting!!!

This sounds logical. The fewer the variables the better. Familiarity with a system (bullet or whatever) tends to be an advantage. But also, lead free will probably be the new normal.

[200Apples]

Gentlemen, for those of us new to the use of copper solids, may we please see some of your suggestions/techniques for a thorough bore cleaning?
I'm aware of one particular method to de-copper a bore, but it's from just one point of view and uses ammonia, which some folks frown upon.

[JackEllis]

On the advice of a gunsmith, I use Sweets 7.62 to get rid of copper but in accordance with the directions I don't leave it in for long.

I start with Hoppes to get rid as much lead and powder residue as I can, then switch to Sweets using wet patches and a nylon brush. When the patches are no longer bright blue, I switch back to Hoppes to clean out any residual Sweets.

I turns out Hoppes Black will also remove copper, though I'm not sure it's as quick as Sweets.

I've also used Wipe Out after doing a normal cleaning and it has gotten even more copper out of the barrel. According to the label, Wipe Out does not contain ammonia but it does contain alcohols and a hydrocarbon of some kind.

[Dano3467]

Not to thread jack but

Now that the subject is on this copper fouling (solid copper ammunition), maybe someone can answer this.

If using a "new rifle" (never previously shot) start using copper exclusively, can a hunter be fairly exempt form much of this heavy maintenance, like old days of just simple care ?

Or is this new ammo just going to be a PITA as far as cleaning ?

IDK so asking..thanks

[deckhandmike]

TTSX or in a pinch TSX. Those bullets work. Go lighter and faster.

[Bisley]

Not to thread jack but

Now that the subject is on this copper fouling (solid copper ammunition), maybe someone can answer this.

If using a "new rifle" (never previously shot) start using copper exclusively, can a hunter be fairly exempt form much of this heavy maintenance, like old days of just simple care ?

Or is this new ammo just going to be a PITA as far as cleaning ?

IDK so asking..thanks

What you have to remember here is that NOT ALL LEAD FREE BULLETS ARE MADE OF THE SAME MATERIAL. The Hornady GMX, Nosler e-tip, and Nosler Lead Free Ballistic Tip (smaller calibers) are all made with a GILDED metal, not pure copper, and are the same exact jacket as their lead core bullets. Most all of your other manufacturers use pure (read soft) copper. Much like pure soft lead, they will be easier to find a great load for, but also like pure soft lead, there will be much more fouling. This is why I only use pure copper if absolutely necessary, such as the Lehigh Bullets for varmint/predators in my .308 and .264 LBC.

Now the gilded bullets are a bit longer than lead core, just as the pure copper ones, so there could possibly be just the slightest hint more fouling than usual but I doubt it could ever be noticed by humans.

Wipe-Out is "THE" answer! I have tried them all and will only use Wipe-Out now. If I have less than 5 cans I get paranoid because I have become that addicted to it. But one little can last way, way longer than you would ever expect. I usually start by foaming a barrel for a couple hours then running patches until clean. I then foam it up again, let it sit overnight and run a patch until clean and repeat this until no blue is on the first patch. Never ever had anything close to rust on a barrel from sitting, that is an internet rumor passed down and if you read closely it only happens if you add the accelerator to it.

Another thing to note about Wipe-Out is that it is not as good of a carbon cleaner as it is a copper cleaner. What this means is that after putting the foam in and letting it sit you will see darker blue on the wet patch the more the barrel is copper fouled. But you should also scrub for carbon in between Wipe-Out applications. There will be some carbon between the layers of copper fouling, so the idea is to remove a copper layer, then the fouling, then the copper, then the fouling.... but that is usually only a problem if you have done a LOT of shooting without cleaning, like ground squirrel shooting.

Be sure and read the description of the bullet you choose to use. It will tell you exactly what it is made of. And if it does not mention GILDED metal is will be pure, soft copper.

[Divernhunter]

Dano3467--Just remember all rifles are test fired so a new rifle has been fired.
I have found that after doing one of my super clean jobs IF I shoot all Barnes or Swift bullets I can shoot a lot of rounds and not have bad fouling. I have a 7-08 with over 200 rounds of 110gr TTSX thru it and have not cleaned it. It still stacks them into a tiny group when I do my part.

Actually the cleaning is not really much trouble. I use Wipe-Out followed by Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 followed by some Butches Bore shine or Tetra-Gun or even Shooters Choice/Kroil oil. When I clean I do 5-15 rifles at a time and just sort of batch process them much like I do brass for reloading.
Forget #9 as it is worthless compared to the newer solvents on the market and do not use a 3 piece Alum rod.

[200Apples]

Gee whiz, fellers, this is great stuff. Thanks again for posting your experienced opinions and techniques. It is appreciated!

[200Apples]

Be sure and read the description of the bullet you choose to use. It will tell you exactly what it is made of. And if it does not mention GILDED metal is will be pure, soft copper.

Thank you Bisley. While we're on this particular tangent, I have been wondering how these Barnes, say, or any typical copper solid such as a WFN or RNFP such as found in revolver-caliber lever carbines, ...wondering how these copper bullets will obturate compared to a lead equivalent...

Point being if the copper solid is sold as a .430" for a .44 Mag bore, yet the bore in question is a Microgroove (or otherwise) and slugs at .432"...

And so on.

[Divernhunter]

They will shoot fine. The Barnes will obturate better than a non-pure copper bullet since it is softer. I have used the Barnes in my 44mag and 454 with excellent accuracy and performance. The Barnes bullet with the big HP is also the best bullet/sabot combo we ever found for our BP rifles. Deer drop like they were struck by lighting from close range out to my longest shot at 280 yards.

[Bisley]

Marlin .44's are notorious for large bores. Nothing you can do about that. If it shoots lead core bullets well then it will shoot gilded metal bullets well, as it is the same jacket (pure copper too). If it does not shoot jacketed bullets well you have another option. You can use this to cast in a .432 mould https://www.rotometals.com/lead-free...ismuth-12-tin/ I have not had the chance to cast with it yet, but am going to soon for the muzzleloader and pistols. This way you can be sure of a good seal and not have to rely on obturation. And you will still be legal.