Chassis vs. Stock

[ar15barrels]

When you bed a chassis like a Cadex, AX or MPA, do you sandblast them first?

If they are already getting 3/8, some 1/4 and occasionally better off a bipod, how much better to they seem to shoot?

What do you charge? I often see $250-$295

I don't do bedding for customers.
I have only bedded my own rifles.
I create a positive interlock between aluminum and epoxy.
When done that way, sandblasting really will not matter, but it's a good idea if you have a lot of surface area as epoxy does not stick to anodizing very well.

[diver160651]

Chassis vs. Stock

I don't do bedding for customers.

I have only bedded my own rifles.

I create a positive interlock between aluminum and epoxy.

When done that way, sandblasting really will not matter, but it's a good idea if you have a lot of surface area as epoxy does not stick to anodizing very well.

Got it.. thanks..

I think the Chassis I all mentioned are actually cerakoted.

The most important part was what accuracy improved are you seeing on a high end chassis already 1/4 or 3/8, by bedding?



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[ar15barrels]

The most important part was what accuracy improved are you seeing on a high end chassis already 1/4 or 3/8, by bedding?

I don't have enough experience bedding chassis systems to quantify the improvement on target from fixing the bedding problems.
The improvement is usually the elimination of flyers.

I can tell you that most chassis will have 0.040" to 0.100" of barrel movement at the handguard without bedding while loosening/tightening the action screws while a properly epoxy bedded stock with have more like 0.001" to maybe 0.002" of movement while loosening/tightening the action screws.

It's so much that you can easily feel/see it while simply holding the barrel/chassis while you are loosening/tightening the action screws.
Also, a trued 700 reciever with a 0.001" bolt clearance will usually bind in an un-bedded chassis, but work perfectly in a bedded stock.

[diver160651]

[RobG]

When I was shooting long range matches I tried out the XLR chassis. What I found was it was good for one position; prone. Anything else was a compromise so I went back to a McM.

And chassis systems do have variances and aren't always a simple "drop in." The XLR was close but needed some "massaging" for a perfect fit.

As far as bedding, once you have done one or two it is pretty easy. The bedding material also conforms exactly to the action so even removing and replacing the stock will not change poi.

Nothing wrong with running a chassis if it works for your type of shooting. XLR makes a great product and Kyle seemed like a good dude when I spoke to him. Good overall CS as well.

[ar15barrels]

I like 0.002" clearance in field guns.
You can run 0.001" in the field if you don't purposely kick dirt on it and make an effort to cover it with a Tab cover or the likes when you stash it between stages.
There is really only a couple 1/8" to 3/8" long areas of the reciever that are tight to the bolt for about 75% of the bolt diameter.
Those areas clear themselves every time you cycle the bolt back and forth to load a cartridge.

[jimmykan]

As always Randall has it right. I have had many rifles in and out of machined stocks and conventional bedded stocks. I have never had any rifle shoot better than when they are in a properly bedded conventional stock. I love my chassis fitted rifles for the ergos but I like the conventional stocks for their accuracy.

I guess I need a tube gun, a fully bedded chassis system.

Isn't that the Ruger Precision Rifle more or less?

No. A tube gun has the rifle receiver glued into a supporting tube. Think of it as 100% bedding. http://www.gotxring.com/

I bought one of Gary Eliseo's early RTS chassis, from around 2011 when his shop was called "Competition Shooting Stuff" and was still located in Anaheim before he moved to Arizona.

His shop fitted my barreled action to the chassis and I asked him then whether he recommended permanently gluing the action into the chassis.

He said it's optional, that some of his customers glued in the action while others did not, both getting "great" results.

In addition to the usual 2 action screws, there are an additional 4 brass set screws, 2 in the front and 2 in the back at the 10-o'clock and 2-o'clock positions to hold the action in there without epoxy.

Now I know "great results" is relative, and remember these chassis are not designed for benchrest shooting and were designed for NRA highpower across the course positional shooting and field positions with or without bipod.

That said, they are no slouch when shot from the bench. Check out this 5-shot 200 yard group I shot the other day at Angeles, it measured less than .1 MRAD, about 0.25 MOA. I used a Harris bipod in the front, and bean bag in the back.

Must give credit to Randall, who chambered and fit the barrel using a reamer that I rented from Elk Ridge. He trued the action too.

Bartlein Heavy Palma 26", 5R rifling, 1-7.5" twist, 6 x 47 mm Lapua
APA Little Bastard Gen I brake

105 Berger Hybrid Target, HBN tumbled, seated for 0.020" jump to the lands
36.0 grains Varget
S&B small rifle primer

[mattt]

I have 2 savage 308 long range rifles made by Ken Breda 1 is a model 12 f/tr other is a older 110 ba in a metal chassis mag fed bedded by Ken. Both are bedded and use same reamer and 32" bartlien Barrels. They both shoot great . Couldn't tell you which one is better? Both shoot of same bipod. Tac one 110 ba wont make f/tr wieght

[negolien]

WORD

[RyanH.]

Hello everyone! I'm new here, I was doing some googling on chassis and such and came across this thread, had to join the forum so I could respond since I am a huge chassis guy.

Most chassis systems have really poor bedding.

I can see a lot of lower end chassis have problems with bedding, the issue is going to be comparing different chassis to different stocks, are you going to compare the quality of a McMillan stock to a Boyds?

There are a lot of videos about epoxy bedding MDT and other types of chassis which always confused me because I thought that the advantage of a chassis was that you didn't need to do additional bedding.

You don't need to bed an MDT Chassis. When you get to the higher end of precision shooting it becomes less about gear and more about skill. The mental game. If you THINK that you need bedding and you're shooting a chassis that's not bedded, and then you bed it, will your groups improve? If you're a really good shooter, probably, but that's because you've now relieved that doubt in your mind which relaxed you more which allowed YOU to shoot the gun better.

What is your opinion of the I.M.B. used in some KMW stocks?

"The I.M.B. is not a V-Block. Instead, I elected to use a full hemsiphere curved block with a slight interference fit. This approach gives maximum surface contact with the receiver and also supports the receiver all the way to the top waterline of the stock."

That's great... until you have an after market action that has a slightly different shape to it and now you're possibly putting pressure on different points of the action possibly in places where it shouldn't be.

MPA, one of the leaders in chassis systems now offers bedding as an option to their product line when you order one of their built rifles. What does that tell you?
AI glues their actions to their chassis? What does that tell you?

That tells us that they want to increase their sales and if they have a customer that doesn't believe that a V-Block is good enough and they want their action bedded, well now they have made another sale because the customer thinks it's better.
As for AI, if you have the ability to have control over both the action and the chassis, this makes sense. You want them to be one piece if you could. The less chance of movement the better. You cannot rely on the force of two action screws to keep things together, especially if it's going into military use which AI has contracts for. Most people, traditional stock people as well, may use locktite or similar on their action screws so there is less chance of the screws backing out. If you can glue the action down even if the screws let up a bit it's less likely to impact accuracy as much as if it wasn't.

It tells me that everyone that claims a chassis is superior because it doesn't need to be bedded is full of poop.

I'm curious on what is a stronger material, T6061-T6 aluminium or bedding compound? The other plus side of a chassis other than the V-Block bedding system is the action is mounted to a solid piece of aluminium. Pillers? How about a solid piece of aluminum? having your recoil lug seat against fiberglass and possibly some bedding compound, or pressed against a solid piece of aluminium? What is going to give you more stability for repeatable shots, not being able to have that recoil lug compress the stock or chassis on recoil.

Marketing people do not generally deal in reality.
The marketing people love to tell you that bedding is not required.
"required" is the key here.

If you want the best accuracy that you can get, you want stress free bedding of the reciever.
To get stress free bedding, you need an epoxy bedding job.
NONE of the machined chassis give a fully stress free bedding of the reciever without the addition of epoxy.
That's why you see the bedding videos.

Fiberglass and wood stocks do not need bedding either, unless you want to improve accuracy...

Marketing people tell you the features that seperate it from the rest, how it's different, it's up to the consumer to figure out if that is something that is better for them.
Now as for marketing, it seems like you're using a bit of a marketing term there with "stress free bedding". When you torque your action down, there is a force placed on the action against the stock/chassis as the screws sandwich the action to the stock/chassis. This would put a stress on the action, would it not?

The chassis thing is quite a recent phenomenon, comparatively speaking. For many years, in most gun forums and from reading the works of those rifle accuracy gurus, the full aluminum bedding seems to be the standard thing to get/do (McMillan or others) for improved accuracy.

Only time will tell if the chassis thing will last or will be one of those passing fad.

Just my humble opinion.

Rifles date back to the 1800s. Brown Precision was the first fiberglass stock maker founded in 1965, McMillan has been in business since 1973, MDT started in 2009. In the grand scheme of things we could still be looking at seeing if high end Fiberglass stocks are a passing fad.

I have several chassis rifles in my personal safe and have handled hundreds in my lifetime. I am happy to discuss my experiences and the pluses and minuses between chassis and conventional stocks. In the end, you need to be comfortable behind the rifle, you need to be confident in the system and you need the action to be solidly mounted to whatever platform it's mounted to,if any of those don't mesh with you, then you will run into accuracy and consistancy issues.

[Kwikvette]

Well that's a long, drawn out response.

Question; do you even compete?

[RyanH.]

Well that's a long, drawn out response.

Question; do you even compete?

I just figured it was easier than typing a bunch of separate responses.

I have, but not regularly, I only have two events lined up this year, two small kids take a lot of my time and I don't like taking full weekends away from them. But I am in the industry and work closely with those that are out there regularly.

[longrange1]

I just figured it was easier than typing a bunch of separate responses.

I have, but not regularly, I only have two events lined up this year, two small kids take a lot of my time and I don't like taking full weekends away from them. But I am in the industry and work closely with those that are out there regularly.

im not trying to be a dick or a smart *** in anyway but i am wondering who you are?
you say you work closely with guys that compete regularly? would it be guys in PRS?
maybe guys that we would know? or just guys local to your area?

[Kwikvette]

im not trying to be a dick or a smart *** in anyway but i am wondering who you are?
you say you work closely with guys that compete regularly? would it be guys in PRS?
maybe guys that we would know? or just guys local to your area?

Basically what I was getting at, without trying to immediately discredit the guy.

Btw, long time no see brother!

[longrange1]

Basically what I was getting at, without trying to immediately discredit the guy.

Btw, long time no see brother!

im not trying to discredit him....ive learned over the years to be careful what you say because you never know who your talking to but when you come in after 2 posts seemingly to know more then just about anyone here it just gets me wondering who you are...especially when you say you only have 2 events lined up the entire year.

*****...im no body and ive already shot out a 6.5x47 barrel since 12-18-17...just spun on the new one and have 2 matches this weekend with no data shooting a new contour and bullet.

it has been awhile...hows things?