Recommendation for beginner

[TMB 1]

TMB1
The point I was making is you can't shoot small with gear that simply won't allow it to happen.
And yes they would do well in any form of racing given equal equipment.

The point I was making is a Formula One car isn't going to do well in the Baja 500 no matter the driver.

[LynnJr]

Lynn,

I have said over and over Benchrest and Belly Benchrest is another thing. (I even apologized for a mistaken cross post) Don't for a minute, put words in my mouth.

I have shot at Folsom with those guys and even seen a bipod shooter with the best group of a session. (Not recommended by me in any way)- I've helped teach Benchrest guys interested in shooting in field conditions; but I have not seen many field guys switch the other way.

If you think most new shooters are migrating to Benchrest, then you defiantly stand on your own. I popped into Coalinga yesterday on my way home to quickly test a zero for a scope and gun that hit the ground hard onto concrete. They were running an across the course BR event; maybe 5 guys shooting; not hugely popular like the Snipers Cup or other events were the registration is filled almost as they are posted, by many that are young. And much like every Benchrest event I seen.. retirement is more closer the norm than new blood.

New shooters need to define and explore their future interests... I often end up seeing people buy things that do not suit their interests as they discover what they want.

Yes, I do believe in situations with multiple targets, AOF, any were you might have a UKD, Long range hunting or were a fast follow up correction will result in more hits is a reason to have a scale in the scope. "If" one buys into that, then the scale needs to be accurate at all ranges.

After I wrapped training this weekend, we let the boys shoot. Do you see a FFP scope on this suppressed system?

Of course it is set up correctly.. for the intended use.

FYI I was not teaching on this type of system; my son was shooting on his own in another area and this was taken just after I wrapped up and when he rejoined us. Yes, his support hand is wrong.


Unfortunately, Lynn you demonstrate over and over that your actually are very unaware of much of the shooting requirements in several growing disciplines and too stubborn to learn.


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Diver
You never find any form or discipline at its highest level with millions of participants. As the accuracy skill and equipment required becomes more and more talent skill and financially based you lose those incapable of achieving the higher goals.
This is exactly why the PRS type matches are very popular today. A guy with a 700 and a custom barrel can compete with a seasoned veteran without embarrassing himself.
There is no such thing as prone Benchrest it sounds like a fun shoot one of the club's is holding.
And you very rarely see shooters at the pinnacle of the sport revert back to boomerangs and sling shots. Evolution moves forward.
But getting back into your realm of shooting you can certainly come out to a URSA match with your son's and teach this old dog how it's done. I like any form of competition shooting be that 22 shotgun or rifle. The only thing I don't shoot too often is pistol due to a bad hand. And yes I own a dozen pistols.
You seemed geared towards every new shooter buying a chassis gun with a FFP scope and using a spotter and subtensions for all there shots.
I don't see all of the shooters in the US of A becoming Sniper Wannabees but I do see the fun factor in it.

[glocklife34]

When i first started this thread budget was around $1200, and almost all the recommendation is to get a .308 or a 6.5, and as others say "right equipment" will make you a better shooter. What i did was make a thorough research from different forum other than this thread. And i finally made my decision yesterday and jailed a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5cr, i am very happy with my purchase and with help the support of this thread, i learned alot from the knowledge all you guys shared. I have a few rifles but this will be my first bolt action rifle and a beginning to precison shooting. Never been so excited before to try the RPR.

Thank you all for the support and knowledge that you guys shared. Now, im in a search for the right scope for the RPR. My budget drastically went up from 1200 to $2300..=)

[LynnJr]

TMB1
The point I was making is you can't shoot small with gear that simply won't allow it to happen.
And yes they would do well in any form of racing given equal equipment.

[TMB 1]

TMB1
If you take a brand new shooter to the 1000 yard line and let them shoot a Benchrest heavygun most will shoot a 10 inch or smaller 5 shot group. At 100 yards they will shoot 3/8 of an inch or less. Women tend to do better there first time out because believe it or not they listen where men already have it all figured out.

Diver
You really seem to think the FFP scope is the answer to all the world's problems with its subtensions and that there isn't much to shooting Benchrest.
In the real world most Benchrest shooters wouldn't consider your rifles to be very accurate. You need 3.5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000 yards to be in the hunt.
You can go to Sacramento on the 4th Sunday of any month and open a can of whooparse on those guys with those I'll shooting Benchrest rifles who think those lousy SFP scopes are okay and not the latest gadgets to be military sniper Wannabees.

OP
Most shooters I see at the range are better shooters than they give themselves credit for. Bad equipment makes you a bad shooter. Low powered scopes are detrimental to accuracy heavy trigger pulls are detrimental to accuracy and guns shot off of crummy rests that don't fit the stock are detrimental to accuracy.
You can put Alain Prost or Aryton Senna into a Volkswagen beetle but don't expect them to win many titles with it no matter how good they can drive.

I realize you can have a new shooter shooting like that with one of your benchrest heavy guns, but it will take more practice to have them hit a 2" at 100 or 10" at 500 with a 1" factory rifle or even a 1/4" custom built, especially if you take away the bench.


How many wins do you think those drivers in Formula One cars would get in the Baja 500?

Probably won't win, but I think they might have a chance of finishing with a VW Beetle

[diver160651]

Recommendation for beginner

TMB1


Diver
You really seem to think the FFP scope is the answer to all the world's problems with its subtensions and that there isn't much to shooting Benchrest.
In the real world most Benchrest shooters wouldn't consider your rifles to be very accurate. You need 3.5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000 yards to be in the hunt.
You can go to Sacramento on the 4th Sunday of any month

Lynn,

I have said over and over Benchrest and Belly Benchrest is another thing. (I even apologized for a mistaken cross post) Don't for a minute, put words in my mouth.

I have shot at Folsom with those guys and even seen a bipod shooter with the best group of a session. (Not recommended by me in any way)- I've helped teach Benchrest guys interested in shooting in field conditions; but I have not seen many field guys switch the other way.

If you think most new shooters are migrating to Benchrest, then you defiantly stand on your own. I popped into Coalinga yesterday on my way home to quickly test a zero for a scope and gun that hit the ground hard onto concrete. They were running an across the course BR event; maybe 5 guys shooting; not hugely popular like the Snipers Cup or other events were the registration is filled almost as they are posted, by many that are young. And much like every Benchrest event I seen.. retirement is more closer the norm than new blood.

New shooters need to define and explore their future interests... I often end up seeing people buy things that do not suit their interests as they discover what they want.

Yes, I do believe in situations with multiple targets, AOF, any were you might have a UKD, Long range hunting or were a fast follow up correction will result in more hits is a reason to have a scale in the scope. "If" one buys into that, then the scale needs to be accurate at all ranges.

After I wrapped training this weekend, we let the boys shoot. Do you see a FFP scope on this suppressed system?

Of course it is set up correctly.. for the intended use.


Unfortunately, Lynn you demonstrate over and over that your actually are very unaware of much of the shooting requirements in several growing disciplines and too stubborn to learn.


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[russ69]

Ayrton Senna is passed away. Service Rifle is dumb. No scopes. Most of the infantry even uses scopes.

Try to keep up with the times old man. Scopes are allowed in service rifle (see the rulebook) or you can shoot the Tactical Rifle class with any scope you want.

[sigstroker]

Ayrton Senna is passed away.

Service Rifle is dumb. No scopes. Most of the infantry even uses scopes.

[LynnJr]

TMB1
If you take a brand new shooter to the 1000 yard line and let them shoot a Benchrest heavygun most will shoot a 10 inch or smaller 5 shot group. At 100 yards they will shoot 3/8 of an inch or less. Women tend to do better there first time out because believe it or not they listen where men already have it all figured out.

Diver
You really seem to think the FFP scope is the answer to all the world's problems with its subtensions and that there isn't much to shooting Benchrest.
In the real world most Benchrest shooters wouldn't consider your rifles to be very accurate. You need 3.5 inch 5 shot groups at 1000 yards to be in the hunt.
You can go to Sacramento on the 4th Sunday of any month and open a can of whooparse on those guys with those I'll shooting Benchrest rifles who think those lousy SFP scopes are okay and not the latest gadgets to be military sniper Wannabees.

OP
Most shooters I see at the range are better shooters than they give themselves credit for. Bad equipment makes you a bad shooter. Low powered scopes are detrimental to accuracy heavy trigger pulls are detrimental to accuracy and guns shot off of crummy rests that don't fit the stock are detrimental to accuracy.
You can put Alain Prost or Aryton Senna into a Volkswagen beetle but don't expect them to win many titles with it no matter how good they can drive.

[russ69]

Service rifle...

Agree 100%. The match grade AR15 is the cheapest way to get started with a good accurate gun. You will learn everything you need to become a good shooter. It will take you to the 1000 yard line, the national matches and the highest shooting honors in this country...it's all up to you.

[diver160651]

Recommendation for beginner

A 2moa rifle in the hands of a good shooter is a 2-3moa rifle. In the hands of a poor shooter it's a 6mpa rifle. Use this ratio across all types of rifles and see the repercussions of being a poor shooter.

This plus many factories offerings are sub MOA--- and target acquisition, managing a changing COF, isn't about just the sub MOA guns


You can give one a 15k gun and if he can't run the scope effectively he can't compete period in some types of situations or matches.

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[TMB 1]

Hey OP, do you have an AR already? Why not get a match grade barrel and scope for it. Then learn mid-range shooting with a DMR. Not as much precision as a bolt gun, but you could get quality parts within your budget, while getting experience with a scope at the ranges you want initially.

Argument against that is, got to have a bolt action 308 that is capable of putting all the bullets through the same hole or you'll never become a good shot. Otherwise the beginner could get a factory bolt action 223 and do exactly that.

[grenades42]

Hey OP, do you have an AR already? Why not get a match grade barrel and scope for it. Then learn mid-range shooting with a DMR. Not as much precision as a bolt gun, but you could get quality parts within your budget, while getting experience with a scope at the ranges you want initially.

[milotrain]

A 2moa rifle in the hands of a good shooter is a 2-3moa rifle. In the hands of a poor shooter it's a 6mpa rifle. Use this ratio across all types of rifles and see the repercussions of being a poor shooter.

[ar15barrels]

I worded my question wrong, but the point I was trying to make because it sounds like you guys were saying that because someone's factory rifle will only shoot 1", 2", 3" or whatever size groups they are not good shooters. Just trying to figure out how your shooting skill is going to make any of those rifles shoot smaller groups?

It's primarily the person who shoots a cheap rifle that is the limiting factor in how well the rifle shoots. The rifle is a 1", 2" or 3" rifle because it's operated by a 1", 2" or 3" shooter.
The same rifle will normally shoot better in the hands of a better shooter.
The kind of people that shoot top quality rifles also happen to be the kind of people that get professional instruction, follow a training regimen and compete.
The guy with no formal training, no regular controlled practice to gauge competence and no tuning done on his rifle to improve its performance is simply not going to equal or better the shooter who takes it so much more seriously.