Scope installation - Is this correct?

[Bushwack44]

UPDATE: I asked the question regarding scope installation as I had an underlying issue: I tried and tried to zero the rifle and wasn't successful. I started second and third guessing myself.

Long story short (after I started this thread), I bought a bore sight (arrived this AM). Took a sighting and the scope was low and very far left. Tried adjusting the scope but too much was necessary that I thought there had to be an underlying issue. I noticed adjustments with height but little to none going right (as I was far left).

Decided to start from scratch and took off the scope, rings & mount. I discovered during disassembly windage screws were a little off but the lower front ring was really off - enough to mess with my mind (and the scope). I leveled all areas that needed to be leveled (yes, I have successfully leveled a couple scopes before). I even measured the pre-drilled holes (done by Remington) to assure they were as correct as can be (using old fashion measuring tools - i.e. ruler and magnifying glass).

Put the rear mount on. Adjusted the lower front ring correctly (using a vise and large crescent wrench) and put the front mount on. Confirmed the barrel was leveled along with the mounts. Placed scope on, leveled scope, top rings on and went to re-sight the rifle. As I already had the scope adjusted all over the place, this time around it was much easier to find center with the laser & crosshairs (used this bore sight per sootch00's video (https://youtu.be/kuh_O9dhnHY). Sighting was done at 25 yards. I'll go to the range in the next couple days and hopefully the adjustments I made worked. FWIW, these are the mounts/rings: http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-2-Pc-B.../dp/B001HN5H20
and http://www.amazon.com/Leupold-Medium.../dp/B001HN5H3Y

On a side note, I already had another rifle sighted at 100 yards (I installed the scope as described earlier). Used the bore sight for a reading (at 25 yards) and it came out good.

In summary, I feel good the problem was the dove tail. When I would look at the scope from the muzzle, the scope was off a bit. Once I fixed the dovetail and put the scope back on, both scope and barrel looked more in alignment. Wont know for sure until I go to Angeles.

[diver160651]

Scope installation - Is this correct?

It matters a lot. If your action/barrel are not level to your reticle and the scope body, are you begin tracking up and down with the elevation turret, you are not moving directly up and down.



Imagine this exaggerated example: Hold your rifle at a 45 degree angle to the left, shoot, and your POI is 10 Mil's low. Dial in 10 Mil's of elevation. Because your rifle is at a 45 degree angle, you actually went up 5 Mils, and over 5 Mils.



Of course, this is an exaggerated example but at long distances, the impact of a canted scope becomes more and more apparent.



OP, make sure it is done correctly. My offer stands. I have all the tools needed to install your scope for you. I'm around all weekend.

Yes it matters completely that the vertical axis is vertical.

But what you are completely missing, is that it must be so under the operator. The action and barrel has little to do with how the operator achieves NPA when on the gun. If the level/scope action cause the operator to force to hold straight or holds crooked on a non-adjustable stock it is a mess. Nowhere do I see this more of an issue than in ELR settings.

There are several ways to gain a good position and level erector travel and adjustable stocks help-

The key is to get the operator behind the gun so that the strata line naturally works or as close to it as possible under "their" natural holds.

Granted you don't want extreme offsets, but the offset to the bore is less critical than if the shooter is waked. You'll see this under stress at matches were the NPA takes over and the levels are not.

[JMP]

I never used either one until my first precision rifle build. It just doesn't matter that much for most rifles/shooters. Your average 100yd plinker isn't going to notice a 2 degree tilt in their reticle.

The harder part, OP, than getting the scope to be level, is getting the proper mounting position relative to the eye relief of your particular scope. My suggestion, make sure you shoulder the rifle and check the scope distance before you tighten anything down.

2 degrees (or 120 minutes) sounds like a small amount of error, but it will actually be quite apparent to your eye if you are shooting at a fair distance or at a target that is hung straight.

Personally, I have developed a strong preference for one-piece mounts over rings. The nice thing about a one-piece mount is that it will be level if you place it on a level surface, whereas your rifle is difficult to get perfectly level. So, I just install the scope into a mount and place it on the receiver with my preferred eye relief. The other nice thing about one-piece mounts is that you can get them with whatever amount of cant you choose so the mount sort of fits the scope with respect to the amount of elevation travel you desire.

[diver160651]

Scope installation - Is this correct?

To be 100% clear ~ once the shooter is mounted you want Zero tilt (off axis).. as JMP is illustrating.

But it is the shooter that induces the offsets that need to be addressed.


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[FourT6and2]

It matters a lot. If your action/barrel are not level to your reticle and the scope body, are you begin tracking up and down with the elevation turret, you are not moving directly up and down.

Imagine this exaggerated example: Hold your rifle at a 45 degree angle to the left, shoot, and your POI is 10 Mil's low. Dial in 10 Mil's of elevation. Because your rifle is at a 45 degree angle, you actually went up 5 Mils, and over 5 Mils.

Of course, this is an exaggerated example but at long distances, the impact of a canted scope becomes more and more apparent.

Your action/barrel, scope body, and reticle all need to be in perfect alignment to operate correctly, especially at distance.

OP, make sure it is done correctly. My offer stands. I have all the tools needed to install your scope for you. I'm around all weekend.

Wrong.

The scope does not need to be level to the rifle. It needs to be level to the horizon. When you take purchase of your rifle, the rifle is not level. The rifle is mounted such that it is comfortable to the shooter, which means the rifle might be canted. You THEN level the scope to the horizon. So when you dial elevation and windage, the reticle tracks true to gravity.

The bullet does not care if the rifle is level. The bullet only cares about gravity. You can literally shoot your rifle at a 90-degree cant. And if your scope is mounted such that it tracks true to the horizon, you'll be a-ok still.

If you mount the scope level with the rifle, but shoot with the rifle canted, you now have introduced tracking error.

[JMP]

To those that recommending the round action and round barrel needs be "leveled" please explain what this truly does. I am sorry but barrel doesn't care.

This scope is WAY off:



An exercise that can be amusing is to shoot sideways-prone. You put in a left offset by the mount of your bore height, and you set your bore height to zero. Then you use your elevation turret for windage and vice versa.

[Yerman]

Haha. You guys are full of fail.

OP, sounds like you got it. Let us know how she shoots. Don't forget to post pics of your target.

[diver160651]

Scope installation - Is this correct?

[never-mind]

[Kingair001]

Haha. You guys are full of fail.

OP, sounds like you got it. Let us know how she shoots. Don't forget to post pics of your target.

😂

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[CandG]

Don't forget to post pics of your target.

haha I kid I kid

[Kingair001]

haha I kid I kid

The lamp ?

[BillyGoatCrawler]

haha I kid I kid

But seriosuly, what the hell is going on with that rain gutter?

[ar15barrels]

But seriosuly, what the hell is going on with that rain gutter?

Maybe it drops into a rainwater collection system.

[CandG]

But seriosuly, what the hell is going on with that rain gutter?

Better?

[Kingair001]

Better?

Did you turned the scope or . . . ?

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