Winchester model 70

[The Gleam]

One of the best rifles ever made. Period

STILL - with the current lack of quality from Remington and its owners sucking balls, Winchester is the better buy, even if made in Japan.

[The Gleam]

When one is on his back and has to chamber a round while a dangerous game is about to pounce on him push feeds do not work.

A friend of mine would have been dead today if he did not have a CRF rifle (Win 70 to be exact) in that exact situation.

Now, for 99% of the hunters it doesn't matter, but people always look at that 1%.

Having seen/read Tanks previous posts and his Avatar, I'd trust him on this advice; even if it's only that 1%. If I could do just 1/25th the big-game hunting Tanks has done, I'd feel like I've met my goal for hunting in this lifetime.

[JTROKS]

For hunting deer up to moose it doesn't matter. My first deer rifle was a Win 70 push feed. Replaced it with an Interarms Mark-X. I can see why dangerous game hunters want that big extractor and controlled feed. For a 270 Win? Well not really much dangerous game I'd hunt with it. I'm just glad I have an accurate 270 Winnie.

OP, check to see if that hot glue bedding is still intact before shooting them.

[MongooseV8]

STILL - with the current lack of quality from Remington and its owners sucking balls, Winchester is the better buy, even if made in Japan.

Actually the Japanese Winchester 70 are really nice rifles. One of my dads has a Super Grade 300wsm and the fit and finish is down right excellent.

[Fjold]

The biggest problem for me with pushfeeds is my own fault.

Many times I have pulled the bolt back just enough to eject the empty case. That is not far enough back to clear the back of the loaded round in the magazine. (The loaded is longer than the fired case because it has a bullet sticking out the front of it.) Then when I push the bolt forward there is no loaded round in the chamber. I've done this numerous times with my Remingtons and Savages. This is not a good thing to have happen when you are hunting, especially when the game can stomp or bite you.

With a CRF action the empty case doesn't eject until it hits the ejector at the back of the action and the bolt is back far enough to clear the rim of the next round in the magazine.

[CobraRed]

God I miss my 70, what a nice rifle.

The biggest problem for me with pushfeeds is my own fault.

Many times I have pulled the bolt back just enough to eject the empty case. That is not far enough back to clear the back of the loaded round in the magazine. (The loaded is longer than the fired case because it has a bullet sticking out the front of it.) Then when I push the bolt forward there is no loaded round in the chamber. I've done this numerous times with my Remingtons and Savages. This is not a good thing to have happen when you are hunting, especially when the game can stomp or bite you.

With a CRF action the empty case doesn't eject until it hits the ejector at the back of the action and the bolt is back far enough to clear the rim of the next round in the magazine.

I was letting my buddy shoot my 6.5AI Defiance action rifle and he multiple times failed to load the next round. I was like, wtf are you doing? You're an experienced shooter.

But you're right. If it's not second nature than it just doesn't happen sometimes.

[1recluse]

Nice Rifles OP, congratulations.

Here we go again.

How many custom rifles are built by Gunsmiths on Push feed Winchester Actions? How many on CRF Pre 64 type?

[kendog4570]

How many custom rifles are built by Gunsmiths on Push feed Winchester Actions? How many on CRF Pre 64 type?

Never said they were not more popular, just that the push feed was an improvement over the pre 64's in a lot of ways. Both from an engineering as well as a manufacturing standpoint. Pre 64's used to own NRA Highpower competition. When the push feeds came out, especially the shorter action, it was the action to use for a custom X-course gun. David Tubb used short action push feeds for quite a few national titles. He also used a Remington or two, as well as his own design.

[1recluse]

Kendog4570,

Your always kind in your response and I appreciate that. As a guy who has used them both for 40 years, I could have a hard time separating emotion with fact. I know many writers like Chuck Hawk, advocate the post 64 guns as being better. As a gunsmith you explained to me that you have found the post 64 actions, bolts, barrels, stocks and triggers being superior engineered and a superior product . As a professional in the field I should accept that as fact. While I agree that 20-30 years of esthetics on the stocks has been a plus (some with crazy nice wood) and CNC machining should have changed my mind on what the end product is. When I run the bolt on my 41' 06 or 42 7x57 I don't get it. I am a dinosaur and doomed to extinction along with the metalsmiths and woodsmiths associated with the production of Model 70's. Same with the Hi Std's with their 400 machining operations to produce a given model in the 30's. I guess as a Craftsman, I miss, or I am in awe of the work that went into to these guns if not the end result. But then again maybe I can feel the deference. Regardless of how someone wants to tell me that because it was better engineered and cheaper to manufacture it is a better product?
I again appreciate the fact that you do submit with more desirable. I look at the semi custom gun companies and they use a "improved" Pre 64 action
or Custom Gun Makers who use Pre 64 Actions for their custom builds.
I can't say anything about the Short Action. If it wasn't being built it couldn't be improved even though Winchester Pre 64's rifles built prior to the short action craze were engineered and sophisticated enough to feed the short action cartridges in a rifle action that was not originally designed for them.

I have to admit, I am also a huge fan of BRNO 21, 22 and ZG 47 rifles along with most Commercial 98 action rifles so don't be to unkind!
Live Well
Ken

[kendog4570]

Hey Ken!
I should have recognized you. The memory is the second thing that goes, cant remember the first!
I know exactly what you mean. There are plenty new guns that are "better", but they just dont have the feel of the old ones. Maybe the materials available back then slides better on itself?? More handwork and craftsmanship involved in the building of them? Run the lever on a tight 1894 Winchester made in 1900 and do the same on a late wrangler angle eject 94.
Take Care.

[1recluse]

And there my fellow Calgunners, is how you win "The ART of the DEAL". Kendog didn't berate my opinion based on my limited end user experience . Ken's professional opinion based on experience dictates that later engineering and manufacturing techniques produced a superior product! And as humans our perception of quality can be based on many things other than end performance.
As stated when I work the lever on a Winchester 1886, 1894 , 71 ,12, Pre War 70 I feel quality, engineering and Craftsmanship. I don't feel it when I run it on any production gun in the last 40 years.

Live Well & Thanks Kendog

Ken

[Monster]

When the sheeple went the way of Remington they left all the good behind.

[tanks]

...

Here we go again.

How many custom rifles are built by Gunsmiths on Push feed Winchester Actions? How many on CRF Pre 64 type?

All three of mine were the CRF type. Here are pics of two that have been to Africa and back. Top is a long action, the bottom is a short. One not pictured is a short action as well. (.500, .416, .458 wildcats respectively).

[kendog4570]

Those are all messed up! The bolts are on the wrong side.
Seriously, beautiful rifles.

[killshot44]

KenDog, obvi they're reverse photos, Lefty Safari Guns are 'spensive!

Sh/t stir: if the Winnie was so great why are nearly all customs based on the Rem700?

Boiler, gorgeous rifles.