Getting first riffle - scope good enough?

[6mmintl]

Just buy the Bushnell 10x tactical mil dot moa scope (around $240).

Will take you out to 600 yards until you learn reloading and wind drift , more then enough wind/elevation adjustment with large target turrets.

[ar15barrels]

Just buy the Bushnell 10x tactical mil dot moa scope (around $240).

Will take you out to 600 yards until you learn reloading and wind drift , more then enough wind/elevation adjustment with large target turrets.

I don't recommend that scope anymore because it does not have adjustable parallax.
Parallax correction is VITAL to shooting tight groups.
New shooters will often fight parallax errors as they have not yet developed a consistent enough position on the gun to be able to be really precise with the gun.

[Garandimal]

I would (and did) look here:






Bought the Patriots at grabagun.com.




GR

[Fergie]

Very nice offer!

Oh and by the way, that's definitely not a Trijicon lol

I have a Trijicon Accupoint 3-9x and if you're local to me, you're welcome to try it out.

Here's that scope on an AR15 of mine -

That is incredibly nice of you to offer a total stranger. I will just take the plunge and buy rifle and scope and then learn what needs to be learned. I know there is a learning curve and the curve can only be overcome with hands on experience. Thanks for offering though!

[Fergie]

Rifles aimed for 'hunter's are typically on the lighter-side (and lack a heavy barrel) because most hunters trek a good distance before setting up so weight is a big factor.

Question; are you buying this rifle at an LGS? Why specifically look at the R783 vs other heavy-barreled rifles available at a low cost?

Sorry not sure what an LGS is.. Local Gun Shop? Then yes. I just like the reviews of the R783. It was listed as rugged, durable and accurate. Since it came with a scope I would not have to figure out what to order with it to attach the scope properly etc...

I am not opposed to other rifles. The Savage Axis 2 gets very good reviews as well. I cannot tell from the websites about the barrel thickness?

Do you have an entry level model you recommend?

[Kwikvette]

Sorry not sure what an LGS is.. Local Gun Shop? Then yes. I just like the reviews of the R783. It was listed as rugged, durable and accurate. Since it came with a scope I would not have to figure out what to order with it to attach the scope properly etc...

I am not opposed to other rifles. The Savage Axis 2 gets very good reviews as well. I cannot tell from the websites about the barrel thickness?

Do you have an entry level model you recommend?

Yep, LGS = local gun shop/store.

I was on the same boat but for me it was between a Remington 700 and a Savage 11 VT or Axis. Someone else on this forum (the thread is only weeks old) was also on the same exact boat.

I went with the 11 VT for 2 reasons; slightly cheaper than the R700 and has a fantastic trigger out of the box (for being stock). Some people love the accutrigger while others hate it, it's subjective.

If you're looking at resale value, the Remington will be your top contender, especially a 700. If you're looking at modifying your rifle outside of scope and bipod, an R700 will yield a wide variety of aftermarket goodies. If you're not doing any of that go with whatever looks favorable and take the plunge!

Once you own one you'll buy more for sure!

[LynnJr]

There is no range advantage between the 223 and 308 they are both 600 yard factory rifles.
If you go custom either will work to 1000 yards but again neither is ideal.
On the barrels being heavy the easiest answer is to measure the muzzle.
Lightweight barrels measure 0.675 and under while heavy barrels on this forum mean up to 0.930 at the muzzle.
On the scope you need to try it out before you swap it out.
In your example get the 223 and leave the scope alone until you shoot the gun. The 223 will have less recoil and therefore will be easier to shoot.

[Fergie]

There is no range advantage between the 223 and 308 they are both 600 yard factory rifles.
If you go custom either will work to 1000 yards but again neither is ideal.
On the barrels being heavy the easiest answer is to measure the muzzle.
Lightweight barrels measure 0.675 and under while heavy barrels on this forum mean up to 0.930 at the muzzle.
On the scope you need to try it out before you swap it out.
In your example get the 223 and leave the scope alone until you shoot the gun. The 223 will have less recoil and therefore will be easier to shoot.

Thanks so much, the barrel diameter should help me select the proper barrel. I never even noticed that number on some websites before. Now I know.

Bonus round question...
If a rifle is listed as a "varmint" gun does - what does this mean in terms of typical rifle builds? Are there any shortcomings of using a varmint gun for other things?

[ar15barrels]

If a rifle is listed as a "varmint" gun does - what does this mean in terms of typical rifle builds? Are there any shortcomings of using a varmint gun for other things?

There is no single correct answer to your question.
It depends on the twist rate.
Some "varmint" guns have slow twist rate barrels for shooting lightweight bullets.
If you want to shoot heavier bullets for shooting longer distances, you need a faster twist rate.
The "Tactical" and "Target" guns tend to have faster twist rates.
Some "Varmint" guns have fast twist rates too though.

[LynnJr]

Randall hit it. Varmint guns are usually a gun with a longer and heavier barrel to get maximum velocity from varmint type bullets.

Long-range guns use heavy for caliber bullets and tend to have fast twist rates in order to stabilize the heavier bullets.
In the old days when I was young a varmint gun would have a 27 1/4 inch barrel with a 15 or 16 twist barrel shooting lightweight bullets over 4000 fps.

A long-range rifle would have a 30 inch barrel with a 8 twist rate for shooting heavy bullets as close to 3000 fps as possible.

The faster bullets give you those devastating impacts you see on YouTube videos while the heavier slower bullets tend to ballistically have a larger advantage the further you shoot.

[Jjwisled]

I'm no competition guy or expert by any means, just a guy whose done alot of shooting. I think the scope that comes with the package would be more than adequate to get you started. As you progress and figure out what you like then you can get something that fits your needs.

[Bucktailpath]

x2. If this is your first rifle, it's not the time to get into spending extra on optics. Get used to the rifle. Get comfy with it, and if the scope is lacking in some area, look for something that solves whatever may be lacking in it. But the scope on there will be fine to get going.

On the 223 vs 308. Depends on your overall uses for the rifle. Just target practice? The 223 is light on recoil, cheap in cost and very accurate.

If you plan to hunt with it, 223 is great for varmints but will quickly fall short on bigger game. Though it is very accurate out to long distances it wont pack nearly the same punch as a 308. My wife has a 223 for deer hunting and I've researched it's ability pretty thoroughly. With good ammo built specifically for hunting it's about a 100 yard and less deer rifle. It can hit accurately way beyond that but will not have the energy to do the necessary damage and will result in wounded game/long tracking job.

Different rifles for different jobs.

[Stumpfenhammer]

You won't go wrong with .308 or .223, but from your posts I'm guessing .223 will better fit your needs. I'd go Remington 700 or Savage but not R783 - my logic is that it sounds like you just might get serious about this and if you do there are more aftermarket parts (last I looked) for the R700 action as well as the Savage, so you can build your next rifle on the action you already have.

Regarding .308 kick...it's just not going to be an issue once someone shows you how to drive the rifle...and it's really not going to be an issue with a JEC or APA muzzle brake.

Cheap scopes are more likely to frustrate than cheap rifles, in my experience.

[zx6rr]

A good scope will help you realize the full potiential of your rifle however accurate it turn out to be. I have seen people at the range who cannot even get on paper at 25 yards with a bad scope and/or bad rings or mount. It doesnt matter how accurate your rifle is if you dont have accurate/reliable scope and mounting.

I just recently tested my Remington 783 in 300 Win mag and a Sightron SIII scope. One of my test handloads shot two groups smaller than half an inch at 100 yards: SMK 155gr, 68.8gr of IMR4831, 3.340" 0CL. I was shocked. All the other loads were doing around 1.0" to 2". I am going to run more test for this load. The R783 has good potentials. I have read a lot of "expert" reviews and opinions on the 783. Some of them are down on the 783 being cheap and being a budget rifle. Most of these writers didnt even test fire the 783. Their opinons are worthless. I was curious about the 783 after I looked at in the store. I thought that the receiver was stronger and beefier than my SA and LA 700s. There is more metal on the 783 action than the 700 especially the closed top. All the features on the 783 seem like improvements on the 700. The 783's is just as beefy as the 700's. The only difference is the bolt head and extractor. The sliding extractor made closing the bolt over a round in chamber harder. But after cycling the bolt about 500 times with a dumby round made the bolt closing much smoother. The 700 is still smoother but not by a whole lot. I can cycle the 783's bolt and not lose my sight picture at the range. I filled the stock's fore arm with some general epoxy from Home Depot to resist flex.

I think the 783 is a lot better than people think of it as some bottom feeder from Remington. I bought it for $329 from Turner's. If my 783 continues to shoot half MOA with my habdload then it is just as accurate as any good 700. A silly "hoover" board toy costs more than a 783. Just because Remington manages to produce an inexpensive weapon, it doesnt mean it is junk. If my sample of the 783 is not good old American value, I dont know that is. If you have extra cash and some patience, give the 783 a try.

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