Too much gun?

[tanks]

I shoot "too much gun" a lot. I've shot ground squirrels and 20 lbs. antelope with a 375 H&H magnum. It's a matter of proper technique and repetition, to get used to them....

Exactly, anything under .400 is "rat caliber." I shot the zebra in my profile picture and an elk last year with a .416 pushing a 225 grain bullet at 2950 fps.

The firearm weighs about 8.5 lbs by the way pretty easy to lug those 12 miles .

[hardlyworking]

I appreciate this Whiterabbit, not lost in the noise. I think you make good points, and I think I have convinced myself that the 7RSAUM is in fact too much gun for me. I've also convinced myself with the help of others here that a compromise gun is just going to eat at me and so I should just build a paper puncher in 6-6.5mm, and a hunter in 7mm.

well, this response will get washed out since there are 42 posts in the thread already but here goes:

"What happens if you buy too much gun?....A 7mm RSAUM is a bee in my bonnet. .... So why do I want a RSAUM?...., can one down-load the round so its less punishing? ...people buy corvettes all the time and then drive them 65 right?...why NOT go with the bigger case?"

Here's a story. Imagine buying a 460 S&W pistol for all the reasons you state. Then you go off and load trailboss loads, or even just buy 45 colts and shoot those instead. You;ve satisfied all your conditions and should be happy.

Sooner or later, you realize that you are lugging around a 5 pound pistol with a 12 inch barrel that can accomplish the same thing a guy with a 4" barrel 25 oz. S&W can do.

What you will do in that case, is realize that your gun is a waste unless you use it to it's realistic potential. At which point you will only shoot full loads. You won;t see the need to push boundaries, just shoot to accuracy. But they will not be reduced loads. Because that's wasting the rifle's capability, wasting projectiles on brass that can push them harder, wasting brass life on something you could have done with cheaper brass and less powder.

And THAT is the danger of buying "too much gun". It's fine unless you are going ino it planning to download. When you do that, you lost the game. Otherwise, no such thing as too much.

[LynnJr]

Then 7RSAUM is smaller than the 7 WSM and neither of them are punishers.
The problem is most people have never shot them and only read the wacko internet stories and think these guns will rip your shoulder out and make you eat it.

When competition shooters call a gun a punisher they have a specific amount of time to fired a prescribed number of rounds and generally have to do that many times.
Put a muzzlebrake on a 50BMG and women can shoot them all day long and they do.

[Whiterabbit]

I appreciate this Whiterabbit, not lost in the noise. I think you make good points, and I think I have convinced myself that the 7RSAUM is in fact too much gun for me. I've also convinced myself with the help of others here that a compromise gun is just going to eat at me and so I should just build a paper puncher in 6-6.5mm, and a hunter in 7mm.

Borne from experience:



Lug that around because "It's so versatile, it can shoot 454 and 45 colt!" Please. A 45 colt can shoot 45 colt. wasted on a 5 pound pistol.

The solution was simple. Grow a pair of balls and shoot loads no 454 can shoot. The go-to is a 425 grain (real weight 440) cast lead bullet moving along at 1430 fps. Or a 500 grain bullet at 1370 fps. That is NOT wasting "too much gun"'s potential.

And that is what will happen when you buy your 7SAUM. You will feel like you are wasting 4 cents on the primer you use for every round that matches 7-08 ballistics. You will start to load it to 7mm rem mag ballistics and consider it the proper investment.

Really, I'm just restating the previous post. I'm glad it didn't get lost in the noise.

[LynnJr]

WhiteRabbit the 7 RSAUM pushes a 140 grain bullet at 3150 fps.
Do you consider that in the same league as a 454 Casull?

[Whiterabbit]

Without thinking about it, if you put my feet on the coals to answer, I suppose so. That would leave the "figurative 460 S&W" to cases like 7RUM, 7 STW, and similar capacity cases.

Or did I misinterpret your question? Not sure how I can compare 454 to 7SAUM. I was trying to make an analogy of 45/454/460 to 7-08/7SAUM. Not saying I was successful.

On the other hand, 3150 is really, really fast. Only time I was playing up there was with a 200 grain E-tip in a 338 lapua magnum. 7SAUM seems like a nifty little case if it can be at basically the same velocity with a much smaller case and a bullet almost 75% the weight.

[LynnJr]

No you got my question right. The Remington 7mm Magnum has been pushing 140 grain bullets at 3150 fps since 1962 and I never read about it being anything but a great hunting rifle.
The most punishing rifle I ever shot was a Winchester model 88 lever action in 308.
I regularly shoot 50-60 rounds of 50 BMG so to me the rifle used has more to do with the punishing than the actual cartridge.

[Whiterabbit]

I was just trying to say that it feels like a waste of buying a big cartridge rifle to use it like a small cartridge rifle. Just buy the small cartridge rifle and take advantage of the "smaller" package.

(smaller does not mean size in this statement)

[Bull Elk]

I own both. I enjoy shooting both; however, once I started shooting my 7mm-08, I've not fired the 7mm. Most important in my opinion is the intended use. I would not use a 7mm on antelope size game as you will do a lot of damage and waste meat. It's a good long range caliber, but for shots under 400 yards I'm all in on the 7mm-08. It's recoil is not much more than a .243 which means you can shoot it all day long. Shoot both (more than once) and make your decision.

[OCShooter100]

hardlyworking,

You're right in that what a bullet destroys is more important than cartridge. Some hunters have to have mega magnums. The reality is they will not kill any deader than a .308 Win provided bullets from either destroy hearts and/or lungs. A .30-30 Win through the heart of the largest elk will kill it just as dead as if it were hit with a .375 H&H Magnum.

The reality is big guns = big recoil. They are no fun to shoot off of benches. Bench shooting builds confidence. Flinching destroys confidence.

If your hunting will be confined to North America, you can't go wrong with an '06. In fact, the '06 has killed everything that walks Earth including elephants.

Before the advent of magnums, the 7x57, .303 British, '06, .30-30 Win, .45-70 Gov't, etc. were killing all big game animals. They will still kill all big game animals. All a hunter has to do is place bullets where they need to go, and animals will die.

I've been hunting big game for better than 40 years. I don't like to be kicked back to the Middle Ages when I'm practicing. I know my limitations. I've fired big guns. I'd take a .270 Win over any magnum for all lower 48 hunting every time. I realize that others will see it differently. I'm good with varying mileage.

Hunters should hunt with cartridges that make them most happy. However, they will cause by brain to go haywire when hunters try to tell me that a mega magnum will kill anything deader than will an '06.

Put a bullet from just about any big game cartridge where it needs to go, and you'll be filling out your tag.

Best of luck to you.

[OCShooter100]

Bull Elk,

Excellent post and sage advice!!!

[Garandimal]

A 270 is never an answer.
Just a mistake.

The .270 Winchester is a great cartridge... THE great cartridge.

It is actually an unbelted magnum, loaded at 65,000 PSI, as opposed to the 60,000 PSI Parent 30-06(30-03) and .280.

It is also Comfortable to shoot.

In the 18-18.5 lb-ft. range in a std. 8.5 lb. scoped rifle, and <21 lb-ft in a 7.5 lb. lightweight scoped rifle like the Composite stocked Patriot. Most say <20 lb-ft of recoil is required for really good shooting, and I tend to agree. The 9.5 lb. M1 Garand in 30-06 only has ~ 17.5 lb-ft of recoil.

150 grain .270 bullets have ~ the same sectional density and ballistic coefficient as a 180 gr. .30-06, but shoot ~150 fps faster, flatter, and w/ 10% less recoil.

Sighted in at 3" high at 100 yards, they have a PBR of ~ 275 yards, and a top-of-back hold to ~ 350 yards.

When reloading, a full/compressed power charge of IMR 4831 yields max pressure and velocity w/ good case life, and only loses ~ 50 fps out of the std. sporter length 22" Bbl.

And they will drop anything a 30-06/180 will drop, if you do your part, including quartering or "Texas heart" shots on mule deer.

For hand-loading, the .280, w/ the slightly better B.C.'s of the 7MM bullets, loaded to .270 pressures, will shine a watt or two brighter... but the game will never notice.

Having relied on the storied .270/ 150 gr. Nosler Partition for decades, I have recently added the 140 gr. Barnes Copper TSX to the arsenal.

Not quite as high a B.C., but ~ 125 fps faster, 100% weight retention, and incredible penetration. Lead-free ammo is also mandatory in most of the areas I hunt when out in the Western Soviet Province.

So, "Why the .270...?"

...because it is an honest 400 yard "mice-to-moose" Rifleman's cartridge.




GR

[Catman]

Job is taking game, but also fun shooting (target/steel). In my hunter's ed class the instructor said out-of-state antelope in Wyoming tags cost... $36. But also useful for probably anything in north america.

Then there's stretching out and doing long range silhouette and what not. The 20" 223 doesn't have enough juice even with the 77s to knock down the rams, and is inappropriate for hunting anyway, with so many better choices.

If by long range silhouette you mean standard NRA silhouette where the longest distance is the 500 meter rams than most ranges will not allow the use of magnum calibers. If you start poking holes in the steel animals you will not make any friends there. Also NRA rules state minimum caliber to be 6mm although some clubs do allow .223 to be used. High velocity = damage to steel targets. I would recommend 7mm 08 or 260 Remington if you indeed want to shoot silhouette and they are both fine hunting calibers.