Defiance custom action options - comments?

[bsumoba]

For folks looking into customs, I'd strong consider getting a bolt without all that fancy spiral jeweling/fluting crapola. I have one bolt with that fancy crap on it (yes, because that's what everyone gets), but I pooped a few hundred bucks down the toilet getting a new bolt since my bolt with all that fancy crap is the least smooth rifle I have to cycle. Plus, it looks kind of a girly anyways.

Anyhow, universally with rifles, when you have the option to flute or carve stuff out of your nice steel to make it look cool, don't, just DON'T. You will be paying more for less. I have learned this the hard way.

I like the girly look

plus, a lot of the custom actions come standard with it Nowadays, unless they will reduce the cost of the action.

[JMP]

I like the girly look

plus, a lot of the custom actions come standard with it Nowadays, unless they will reduce the cost of the action.

You can ask when you order, the cost either way will be de minimus vs the total cost of a nice rifle. It's just personal preference for me. That spiral crap drives me nuts. It doesn't make sense to me. It's like a machinist got bored one day and created something for fun. Then, it caught on and became standard. It will still work, but nothing good comes of it.

[Nevertipsy]

The heavy tang is stiffer.
Deflection in a factory sized tang is COMMON when 700 type receivers are dropped into chassis systems which don't fully support the receiver behind the rear action screw.

Thanks Randall for the explanation, I always want to know the why if possible!

[ar15barrels]

plus, a lot of the custom actions come standard with it Nowadays, unless they will reduce the cost of the action.

With Defiance, the resellers are normally ordering them fluted so the cost is "built-in" to the price.
When ordering directly, they offer non fluted bolts and the price is less expensive than fluted bolts.

[LynnJr]

JMP
The fluting came to be so the short range benchrest shooters could make weight at 10.5 pounds with the newer model scopes.
The fiberglass stocks we see today and the carbon fiber stocks we see were all weight saving measures from benchrest shooters that got noticed and marketed to create more revenue.
Tom Manners from Manners stocks used to make a really slick front rest with two outside pillars that you could lock down once set. The rest came about because most rests have a single attachment point holding the rest top to the center post.
What would happen is you would plop a 100 pound rifle on the rest and work the bolt briskly and eventually that 1/4-20 bolt would loosen and pull through.
Skeletonized trigger guards and rings used to be all the rage as well.

[PolishMike]

I think Marc @ Spartan Precision in San Jose has used a lot of their stuff. He is one of the best rifle builders around.

[JMP]

Lynn, I was unaware of that fact. In that case, it seems like it would serve a very practical purpose. I am not concerned about making an exact weight so I will always go sans the spiralling. It feels better to me without. I think most spiral flute operators today are not using them to make weight. Thus, I just don't see why it's so popular.

[LynnJr]

JMP
I have two unlimited guns with actions weighing over 6 pounds each and they both have spiral fluting. The weight savings does nothing on an unlimited gun so in my case it is just a fashion statement.
I don't make fashion statements so in my case it was what Lester Bruno had in stock.

[thegiff]

I was wondering about the flat bolt face too, and best I can find is this description for what looks like a branded Defiance action.

Claimed is:
1. Easier to machine the barrel (no c'bore for bolt head).
2. Stronger
3. "Over-Engineered" (well, certainly better than under-engineered)

I saw elsewhere the claim that it would be better somehow for m-16 extractors, but I can't verify that claim.

http://www.apsrifles.com/Raptor_Receivers_3H6X.html

The bolt head was designed with extreme strength in mind. The bolt lugs are nearly twice as long as the Remington 700 bolt lugs and in fact, they are as long if not longer then most receivers designed for the huge 408 Chey Tac cartridge. Far over engineered for anything that can be chambered in the Raptor based rifle. Simply put, this is the strongest receiver in this class BY FAR.
The receiver bolt head is designed with a flat face. The bolt lugs extend to the end of the bolt head which allows increased bolt lug strength. It also simplifies barrel machining and fitting.
The Raptor bolt head also houses an extreme duty pinned in M-16 style extractor. This means that there is no way for the extractor to be blown out of the receiver in the rare event of a pierced primer of case head failure like the Sako type extractors sometimes can be. While these are extremely rare, its just an added safety factor built into the Raptor receiver.

[ar15barrels]

I was wondering about the flat bolt face too, and best I can find is this description for what looks like a branded Defiance action.

Claimed is:
1. Easier to machine the barrel (no c'bore for bolt head).
2. Stronger
3. "Over-Engineered" (well, certainly better than under-engineered)

The lugs are stronger for handling bolt thrust, but the unsupported bolt nose is weaker for containing over-pressure and gas.
When the bolt nose sticks straight into the back of the barrel in a counterbore, the barrel's counterbore will limit how far the bolt nose can expand and contains the gasses much better when you blow up a gun.
Unsupported bolt noses like a savage or the straight defiance or a model 70 or a mauser are terrible at handling cases when they yield to over-pressure.
The unsupported sides of the bolt simply peel open as the brass expands inside the bolt nose.

It's ironic that the "stronger" and "better extractor" bolts have to get replaced after a rifle is blown up, while the standard 700 bolt typically gets re-used with just replacing the extractor.

[LynnJr]

Randall
Thanks for the heads up on the flat boltface. My little brain was working over time trying to figure out its reason.

[FourT6and2]

The lugs are stronger for handling bolt thrust, but the unsupported bolt nose is weaker for containing over-pressure and gas.
When the bolt nose sticks straight into the back of the barrel in a counterbore, the barrel's counterbore will limit how far the bolt nose can expand and contains the gasses much better when you blow up a gun.
Unsupported bolt noses like a savage or the straight defiance or a model 70 or a mauser are terrible at handling cases when they yield to over-pressure.
The unsupported sides of the bolt simply peel open as the brass expands inside the bolt nose.

It's ironic that the "stronger" and "better extractor" bolts have to get replaced after a rifle is blown up, while the standard 700 bolt typically gets re-used with just replacing the extractor.

I'm trying to follow here. You're saying the "flat" style bolt nose is better compared to the "recessed" style? Just want to make sure I'm eliminating any ambiguity.

And when going with one over the other, the barrel/chamber has to be reamed differently?

Is this something one would have to discuss with their rifle smith ahead of time? For example, If I were buying all the parts and then sending to a smith, would I need to discuss which bolt I plan on running first?

[ar15barrels]

Defiance custom action options - comments?

I'm trying to follow here. You're saying the "flat" style bolt nose is better compared to the "recessed" style? Just want to make sure I'm eliminating any ambiguity.



And when going with one over the other, the barrel/chamber has to be reamed differently?



Is this something one would have to discuss with their rifle smith ahead of time? For example, If I were buying all the parts and then sending to a smith, would I need to discuss which bolt I plan on running first?

I was very clear in what I said.
You don't seem to be fully understanding it though.
Read what I said a few more times and think about it.
Then go look at pictures of blown up Remington 700 compared to Savage/Winchester70/Mauser bolts.

You should discuss all the details of the build with your gunsmith before ordering anything.

[FourT6and2]

I called up Defiance yesterday. Very helpful folks. A person answered the phone, not a machine. And they didn't have to transfer me to a "tech" to answer my questions. They explained the flat vs recessed bolt nose thing quite clearly.

[Vu 308]

I just got back from a trip to Montana and was lucky enough to be allowed to tour the facility. All I can say is one would be hard press to find an action built with more care and accuracy than a Defiance Machine.

The machinery and technology used to build these works of art was truly impressive. Glen Harris, Mike Lee, and the crew there are great folks and take a lot of pride in what they produce.