2000 Yard Rifles Needed

[diver160651]

2000 Yard Rifles Needed

Diver

Thanks for your post and you are most certainly welcome to shoot with us.

We only fire single shot so no magazine full of ammo is allowed. All actions single feed. I will include a picture of my sure feed to show you how we feed the rifles. Most shooters lay a towel down and put 10 rounds out.

I don't like think about the number of shots fired so the surefeed works great.

I just got an e-mail saying the target systems will go out 3/11/15 and we went with 6 instead of 4 adding $2000 to the tag.

I am now bringing 6 gongs at 118 pounds each.

Those groups are phenomenal for 2000 yards. Very few shooters have a sub 3 inch group at 1000 yards.

Again, at ELR ranges luck is King, this is despite thousands of hours on load development, wind reading, form and tools such as tuned FFS, running on a Trimble with a Kestrel on trimmed & pointed projos, I hope you guys choose area and time I can make.

I know the surefeed, a great system for the bench. I am a prone dirt shooter, not as sophisticated. For me, self-spotting, and focus on recoil management, so you can see your own trace and hit take front stage.

Anyway, now that I "think" I know you're going to have multiple shooters live on multiple targets, please ignore my bolt closed comments. It is s different game, than I know for typical ELR.

Please keep us posted. What you are attempting is very big, very few other than Frank (ex sniper, from the Hide) and few for profit guys have attempted to get normal guys to experience ELR near the limits.

I think anyone reading this thread and for those that ever inspired to shoot into subsonic distances, should absolute jump on this...... Having somebody to mentor you into the ELR game does not come often or cheap!

This is a GIFT.....






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[BillyGoatMachine]

Tag for location update and dates. And if Manner's can deliver my stock I'll have enough time to chamber up my Bat in 338LM.

[LynnJr]

Diver
I wanted each shooter to fire there record target then move on to the next shooter but we would never get a match winner because it is innevitable that someone gets more wind than the next guy.

If we line up 4 shooters abreast and put a time limit on the record target the winner of each relay advances. If that doesn't give us a winner we will have to shoot off at 2500 yards and so on.

I just re-read your earlier post and a 24 inch gong at 2400 yards is incredible and I have wore out 2 dozen barrels at a 1000 yards. The two hits that close blows my mind.

JMP
Right now I have a blown rotator cuff on my left shoulder and a pinched nerve between c5 and c6 or I would be working 6 days a week and shooting on sunday only. If you can make the match please do so even if it is to just to say hello. You will learn more from attending a single match than a years worth of reading. Attending lets you see how everything is run and when you get healed up you will be an old pro while we are helping others. It isn't hard its just new.

Spyder
If we get the ranch near two rock and get the targets in a timely manner I have a pile of 338 Lapua 338 Snipe-Tac and 50 bmg rounds ready to go. I am trying to get my gunsmith too get two barrels put on for me and if he gets them done you can shoot one of my rifles. Any help is appreciated especially if I am recovering from a surgery or two.

[1859sharps]

I know this might be a little off topic and my goal isn't to criticizes or change lynn's mind about the safety rules, only to understand the thought processes and explore the theory that in some ways safety rules may make us more unsafe in the long run.

Let me try and explain....

My opinion and thoughts on safety have change and hopefully evolved over the years. I have become more and more a believer in the idea that safe gun handling and following the 4 rules makes us more safe with firearms than 100 rules trying to cover each and every possible scenario out there will.

Three primary things have changed my thinking and moved it in this direction.

1. range rules that cover 3 pages or more
2. the "old fart" at hunter safety courses that can't imagine that us "youngsters" could possibly handle a gun safely
3. brief time in formal shooting matches. highpower and USPSA

I know rules are often meant to try and address complete noobs so to speak as well as experienced. And I have seen my share of poor/dangerous gun handling, which sometimes leads to a new rule, and when that doesn't solve the problem yet another rule etc, etc, etc until things reach a point I sometimes wonder maybe we should leave our firearms in the safe, show up to the range and just say pew, pew.

so my question, and this is just a question, something to chew on, looking to make things better kind of question....

Taking the bolt out of rifle rule for example... I have to ask my self. how does this actually improve safety? So we really want people handling firearms that need this to be safe? Do rules like these actually make us less safe because it relieves us of learning and putting to practice safe firearms handling with in the scope of the 4 rules? are we more likely to be careless of where a rifle is pointing and more tolerant of someone who is muzzle careless because we know there is no bolt, thus reinforcing poor firearms handling?

When I go to a range that has 3 or 4 pages of rule. lets be honest, who can remember all those rule? and at what point do the rules them self become distracting and a contributor to poor firearms handling because who is going to spend the time to really remember 3 or 4 pages of rules? then not memorizing or even really reading them go off and do whatever they are going to do.

I know this though, if I follow the 4 rules, I am safe no matter what.

so my question is this...are we really better off with "extra" rules? are rules other than the 4 rules actually making us more or less safer?

just encase anyone comes by this thread and wonders what the 4 rule are...

Treat every firearm as if it's loaded
Never point a firearm at anything you are not willing to destroy
Always be sure of your target and what is beyond it
Keep your finger off the trigger until you are on target and ready to fire


Again, I am asking more as a food for thought, noticed two different approaches to running a safe match mentioned in this thread and my own questioning of how safety is being handled more and more at ranges and not entirely sure we are being served by the current approach. Yet 100% aware of why we headed down this path, but not sure "more" rules and steps like "no bolts" really is making us truly more safe.

[LynnJr]

Bolts out means the gun can't fire and that is a standard rule in most competitions.
Most of the rifles in competition have very light trigger pulls.
No bolts no accidents no exceptions.

Edit: If the bolt is in your rifle the guy/gal running the line has no way of knowing if the gun is ready to fire or empty. When shooters are downrange and someone grabs a coat there binoculars or some gear from the bench we dont want someone getting shot in the back due to carelessness.
The worst violators are usually those with alot of experience.
Never seen a gun fire without the bolt so nobody packs a gun around with the bolt in place. Never carry a gun in a case with the bolt in either.

[CK_32]

This is our of my pay grade.


Quite a feat, GL with endeavor.

[1859sharps]

The worst violators are usually those with a lot of experience.

kind supports my questioning of additional safety rules to overcome poor firearms handling.

I follow you though, I understand what your saying. but if the worst "violators" of safety are those with "a lot" of experience. I would actually argue they don't have the right experience or maybe even truly have a lot of experience in gun handling.

NOT questioning you specifically or your way/rule etc. More a thought exercises. are the extra rules, the taking the bolts out etc, etc...are we really more safe because of these steps or less in reality? are we creating an allusion of safety because X rule eliminates the need to learn to "do it right" in the first place.

Again, just a thought exercise.

thanks for replying. I am going to keep chewing on this.

[DaleAGribble]

Really wish my rifle would be finished by the time this is put on but I seriously doubt that.

[LynnJr]

We dont allow any rifles not in a case or out to have there bolts in. We expect that everyone has a modicum of common sense but by not allowing any bolts in the rifles until the command is given we eliminate any worries.
In most forms of shooting rifle weight is less than 25 pounds and it is extremely easy to keep your muzzles up.
In unlimited range shooting were rifles weighing more than 100 pounds are quite common it is sometimes necessary to have several shooters put a rifle on the bench.
With the bolts out we don't have to worry about practices that won't work in this form of shooting.
In the picture you will see a 94 pound rifle. The picture is horrible but the recoil pad is huge but looks extremely small against the rifle.

[DaleAGribble]

Where's the trigger?

[LynnJr]

The gun as pictured is a Mach V which is the 50 BMG necked down to 375 caliber shooting a lathe turned solid at 4200 fps. The trigger is a long shoe Jewell and is out as the stock needs finishing and paint.
I couldn't find what I wanted in a stock so I made my own. That stocks has 44 pounds of lead ingots inside of it.
Here is a picture of the trigger which is about 0.250 longer than normal and is set at 2 ounces.

[DaleAGribble]

I didn't see the trigger shoe and was wondering if you had some trick way to fire it remotely or something. How heavy of a bullet? 350gn? That's smoking fast. What's barrel life like on that round?

[LynnJr]

Barrel life is around 700 rounds. Bullet weight was 365 grains.

[brando]

The king of overbore

[1859sharps]

We dont allow any rifles not in a case or out to have there bolts in. We expect that everyone has a modicum of common sense but by not allowing any bolts in the rifles until the command is given we eliminate any worries.
In most forms of shooting rifle weight is less than 25 pounds and it is extremely easy to keep your muzzles up.
In unlimited range shooting were rifles weighing more than 100 pounds are quite common it is sometimes necessary to have several shooters put a rifle on the bench.
With the bolts out we don't have to worry about practices that won't work in this form of shooting.
In the picture you will see a 94 pound rifle. The picture is horrible but the recoil pad is huge but looks extremely small against the rifle.

ah...a 100# rifle, needing more than one person to handle. that puts a much different spin on things.

makes much more sense now.

I will factor this type situation into my thinking. never even occurred to me people would be trying to work with a 100# rifle. I had in my mind a Barrett 82A1 or similar in weight and size as what would be in use and I was actually thinking along the lines of even though those rifles aren't as easy to handle and control as a basic r700, I would be a little worried about people who couldn't be safe with one just following the 4 rules.

but having to man handled a 100# rifle is a different situation.

my goal isn't to make things less safe, but more safe through better practices vs just more rules and work arounds.