The .45 GAP Experience

[CalNRA]

The problem with introducing a new caliber (at least how i see it) is that many gun owners are so set in their ways on what they like they wont try any thing new. Thats why you have innovative calibers like 10mm, .45 GAP. and .357Sig that have great balistics and are cool calibers but because they are not "mainstream" they only are bought by a small group of people. It is what it is.

I think the 10mm is well liked here on Calguns, whenever the Glock 29/20 or SW 1000 series are mentioned people seem to like them. There is a debate on 357 sig, for sure.

But 45Gap has the great ballistics in the same way that a 45 auto has great ballstics. I can see why not too many people care for it.

[neouser]

Have always wanted to try 45 GAP.

My go to will always be 9mm, but it's nice to have options.

[cstarr3]

A very niche cartridge though. It will probably die out in a few more years. I would like to see a truly compact frame snub nose revolver designed around that case.

Thanks for your reply.

I think a revolver would probably use .45 Auto Rim, which is a niche caliber itself. Like the S&W 610, I doubt a revolver chambered in a a semi-auto round would go anywhere (as disappointing as that is to me, personally). On top of that, the extra 4mm of length of the .45 AR is not going to translate to a bulkier grip, like the .45 ACP does over the GAP in a semi-auto. Also, the performance (based on DoubleTap advertised velocities) is probably as close or closer for GAP and AR than GAP and ACP.

However, something like the Boberg would be pretty cool in .45 GAP, though it probably wouldn't be certified for California sale. Still, the current Boberg XR45 is rated to shoot .45 Super, so I guess having it chambered in ACP has that benefit. And that can be said about most .45 ACPs that can handle the .45 Super or .450 SMC. If we're going to have a big grip for the ACP, make sure it can shoot them hot rounds!

As for dying out, I still see GAP at the local gun store. One of the GAP advocates I have met told me that he talked to one of the big cheeses at Federal, and he said Federal "wasn't giving up on the GAP." Hearsay, granted. But still kind of nice to hear it said.

[CalNRA]

Like the S&W 610, I doubt a revolver chambered in a a semi-auto round would go anywhere.

ahem

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1024896

[cantdance]

A few years ago Turners was selling, or practically giving away G37 and G38s for around $350 or so. I was tempted, but had other priorities at the time.

I think if for some reason the 45Gap was suddenly the only round available, I would be happy with it, but still don't feel the want for it.

[k1dude]

.45 GAP = Spawn of Satan.

I get the .357 Sig. I don't get the .45 GAP. Especially now that Glock has introduced the G30s.

[dfletcher]

I edited to save space - and don't have much to comment on.

The 45 ACP may have, in 1911 or so, been adopted to match numbers of the 45 Colt that had been replaced by 38s, and it does. At least in what would be called standard factory loadings. That it doesn't match "Buffalo Bore" type 45 Colt loads seems to me beside the point. That's not what it was designed for. And how does that speaks well of the GAP? The GAP "comes close" to the ACP, so that is good? OK, well Tina Fey "comes close" to looking like Sofia Vergara. I'll take Sofia any day of the week ......

Also, why would one compare the capacity of a Glock 37 with that of a 1911 - we're comparing cartridges, not guns. Doesn't a Glock in 45 ACP carry the same number of rounds as a Glock in GAP? Why not compare the Glock to an FN - that carries what, 17 rounds of 45 ACP? Further, wouldn't a 1911 style gun in GAP carry the same number of rounds as a 45 ACP, not more? Why mix up platforms, unless it serves the purpose of propping up the GAP?

The GAP and ACP are each 45 caliber - each case is the same diameter as the other. How does one get more rounds from the same platform? I don't think you can.

Like capacity removes one of the "hates" referenced and we're left with price. So, why would someone pay more money for a cartridge that does the same thing?

The reason, it seems to me, the GAP ought to exist is the one that brought it about in the first place. The Springfield Guardian. The only reason for the GAP to exist is a smaller framed gun - an EMP sized pistol using a 45 caliber bullet, 45 ACP performer, in the smaller gun. I have an EMP and would be happy as heck to have a Guardian in it's place if it used an alloy frame. If it used a steel frame I'd just as soon stick with my Detonics since it has a shorter grip.

I don't think people hate the GAP, I think most just don't see the point in current offerings.

[dfletcher]

Thanks for your reply.

I think a revolver would probably use .45 Auto Rim, which is a niche caliber itself. Like the S&W 610, I doubt a revolver chambered in a a semi-auto round would go anywhere (as disappointing as that is to me, personally). On top of that, the extra 4mm of length of the .45 AR is not going to translate to a bulkier grip, like the .45 ACP does over the GAP in a semi-auto. Also, the performance (based on DoubleTap advertised velocities) is probably as close or closer for GAP and AR than GAP and ACP.

I'm not sure what to make of this comment. 45 ACP revolvers have been around for years, continue to do well and most folks use 45 ACP, with or without moon clips, rather than the 45 AR case. There's about 1 factory load for the 45 AR and it's a plain old lead RN.

The 45 AR case is the same length as the 45 ACP, each is much shorter than the larger calibers revolvers tend to be chambered in. So I'm not sure of what importance the reference to grip size is in the revolver equation.

The 45 GAP, in factory loads, beats the heck out of the 45 AR in factory loads. But the 45 AR case can be loaded every bit as hot as a 45 ACP case (the only difference being external, not internal) and again, anyone using a 45 ACP revolver for defense would tend to use ACP, not AR. In addition to variety moon clips are pretty much the ultimate speed loader - isn't there some fellow named Jerry who tends to rattle off alot of rounds quickly with a 45 ACP revolver?

Again, I've no issue with the GAP in the proper platform and think people would buy it in guns like the Rorbaugh. I wouldn't blame it's lack of success on dislike, that seems to me a cop out. If it doesn't bring value to the table, people won't buy. If someone could make money off the cartridge they would. Probably better to focus on that than "the hate" - which probably doesn't exist. More like indifference.

[caliberetta]

I once had a talk with someone who was trying to sell me on the 45 GAP, and to be honest it felt like those people who come your front door trying to convert you to their religion. I try to be nice, but I know for sure it will not ever happen, I'm pretty happy with my religion.

With that said, innovation and trying new things is not so bad. I'm just not sure it will be easy to get people out of the 9mm and 45ACP "religions" as those are so well established.

Thanks for the review. I'd love to try to shoot the 45GAP one day.

[Gaius Marius]

I would not doubt that .45 GAP is perfectly fine for defensive use, or that it offers good mag capacity, etc... But I think that 99% of people in CA who have a Glock in that chambering have it because some years back Turners was blowing them out for around $350-$375 something like that. They bought the gun for the price, and now they are insecure about all the smirks they get when they tell people they have one. If those Turner's Glocks in .45 GAP had been normal Glock price, we wouldn't be having these discussions.

[dfletcher]

It may also be that with the GAP's higher pressure and larger size smaller guns that use alloy and are OK with a 9mm or a 45 ACP can't handle the GAP. In 9mm the EMP is fine, the 40 S & W version is steel.

The GAP's reason for being is (IMHO) small guns. If using the GAP means getting a smaller gun, but that gun is heavier than it would be in ACP - what's the gain?

[heidad01]

HS Produkt still makes it. Springfield Armory chooses not to import it to the USA.

Some countries have gun laws that prohibits the civilian ownership of handguns in calibers that are used by or have ever been used by their Gov/Mil/LE.
This prohibits the ownership of .45ACP handguns and allows the ownership of .45GAP handguns.
So, there is some interest in other countries.
Which is why HS Produkt still makes the HS-2000 in .45GAP and why Sellier & Bellot started making/continues to make .45GAP ammo.

^^^ Very good point,
And that is why it may be a good option in other places but around here, it is just another odd caliber that most have not even heard of.

[Jimmybacon43]

Neat write up. I'd be interested to try the .45 GAP round. I think the reason it didn't catch on is because it's meant to provide .45 ACP performance in a 9mm frame, but the .45 GAP frame is not as small or slim as a 9mm frame AFAIK. I think it would be neat if someone made a really small subcompact gun in .45 GAP though, you could save on front to back grip length a little bit.

[IVC]

I don't think there is as much *hate* for 45 GAP as the OP implies.

From the practical point of view, it's just another caliber that fits somewhere in the middle of each performance curve, trading off this for that. Pointing out that 45 GAP doesn't fulfill any specific need, though, is not "hate."

On the other hand, if all I owned were "practical," "needed," "useful" and "meaningful" firearms, I'd have about half as many as I do now. It's a fun niche that I'd like to shoot when I get a chance.

[CalNRA]

The second major difference is in the ability to meet their design parameters. The GAP usually comes in a very close second to the ACP in head-to-head ballistic matches, but still holds its ground well. The .45 Long Colt, though, is far superior to the ACP in terms of energy. The Long Colt can often push heavier bullets at faster velocities than the ACP. Thus, the GAP actually wins that bout.

When I went to the range the first time, I was expecting the gentle push of the .45 ACP. I was a little surprised when I got the rocketing kick of something closer to a 10mm. I grinned with delight. ... the instructor ( a different one than I met at the store the day I bought the gun) only asked to shoot one of the student’s guns; my .45 GAP. He got a few rounds out of it, and told me how much he enjoys the GAP round.

I don't even know what you are trying to say here. The GAP has higher pressure and a snappier recoil than ACP yet you attribute that as being "enjoyable"?

So basically one would prefer GAP over ACP if you like .40 like recoil and have small hands that can't handle the G21? Maybe your instructor was merely trying to be supportive since no one else bothered with a 45GAP in his classes?