Commander Sized 1911's

[gwhiz]

DW Guardian is nice. Buy once, cry once.

[JohnCCW]

Good info from Bill Wilson:

http://wilsoncombat.com/new/compact-1911-reliability.asp

[Nick Adams]

If its not a Colt its a copy

This. If in ten or twenty years, god forbid, you need to sell ,a Colt Combat Commander it will be valuable. It will be a Colt .45.

[dwightlooi]

I am NOT a fan or short 1911s -- commanders, defenders and officers, especially the shortest variants. The 1911 platform is simply inferior when it comes to adaptability to short barrel variants. Linkless, guide rodded designs are much better this regard. Before you start a flame war let me say that I own a 1911, I know the platform reasonably well and I am NOT anti-1911. The Baer Premier II 1911 is the handgun I shoot best. Most importantly, please listen to why I say what I say before you get mad at me.

(1) The "short" 1911s almost universally have a shorter slide travel than the 5" models. This is compelled by the plug and bushing system which limits how much you can move that slide before the components hit each other. The shortened travel reduces the time the next round has to come up to feed level before the slide tries to strip it forward. This is compounded by the relatively low tension of the magazine springs in 1911s. It also gives the spent case less time to clear the port before the slide threatens to stove pipe it on closing. Most have a repositioning of the ejector to alleviate the problem, but most short 1911s are more likely to stove pipe or have ejection issues -- especially with +P ammo with higher slide velocities.

(2) 1911s because of it's plunger and plug spring system and an open ended spring which tends to dig and not rotate when torsioned already have a pretty lousy spring life. A typically 1911 spring should be replaced every 3000 rounds. This is annoying for people who knows to do that and it is a source for poor mechanical function for people who don't. The short 1911s have even shorter spring life -- about 1500~2000 rounds which borders of being unbearable.

(3) The swing link lockup -- as opposed to cam and wedge lockup -- makes it impossible to have the barrel and the slide to move in parallel at least for a short while when a round is fired. The barrel tilts immediately, it doesn't move straight back. This is both good and bad. It is good for accuracy in tightly fitted guns because you can get more play out of the system than you can from a cam and wedge system. A really tight 1911 will shoot into 1.5" at 50 yards (not 25). A really tight wedge and cam system -- including the wedge, cam and o-ring HK system -- doesn't do as well even though one should say that both are more accurate that even a championship shooter is humanly capable of approaching in free hand shooting so both are arguably good enough. However, because the barrel tilts immediately the indexing against the bushing and the bushing against the slide -- the front end indexing is more critical than with linkless designs. This means that 1911s are less tolerant to shortening of the slide length and consequently the increase in the angular error of the barrel indexing than linkless designs. 1911s lose more accuracy when shortened than linkless designs.

(4) Finally, again linked to the swing link barrel tilting system, the 1911's inability to a optimize the unlock timing by changing the periods of parallel travel and the timing of when the barrel wedge hits the camming ramp, mean that for the most parts the 1911 has to rely completely on a heavier recoil spring to compensate for the quicker unlocking of due to the loss in slide mass. This further compounds problems 1 & 2. This is not to mention that light slides with strong springs tend to be snappy in recoil.

What it all adds up to is that short 1911s tend to have greater degrees and prevalencies of poor reliability than shorterned Glocks or HKs or whatever. They also have more frequent maintenance intervals. Most of these would or could have been addressed properly by changing the frame geometry to permit greater travel but the religious insistence on parts commonality ad frame geometries of this historic design means that that is practically never done.

If you get a short 1911, I suggest that you refrain from going below a commander and thoroughly research and vet that particular vendor and model's reliability. It is not impossible to find a reliable and accurate short 1911. But it can be harder than finding a reliable and accurate 5" 1911. Also, you should be prepared to restrict its diet to standard pressure ammunition.

[44fred]

Good info from Bill Wilson:
http://wilsoncombat.com/new/compact-...eliability.asp

John
Thanks for that link. I'll give S&W a call and ask what they recommend for self defense cartridges in their 1911PC bobtail. This could save me $$ trying to find what works best.

[Vin63]

I'm thinking about buying a commander sized 1911. I have Government size 1911's and am very familiar with them but have no experience with the commander size.

For those of you that have one, what are the pro's and cons of the shorter barrel? More recoil, easier to shoot, etc…

Also, which models would you recommend? I'm looking at the Colt XSE or Dan Wesson Classic Bob-Tail. Any others I should look at?

If you're used to shooting the GM size, then you'll find the Commander sized pistol just about the same except for the sight radius and a little less weight. The recoil has always felt the same to me with the shorter slide distance. If I were going to purchase a new one, an XSE would be on my short list especially in the price range. Let us know what you end up with.

FWIW…this is one of my CCs that I have the most rounds through (north of 25K rounds…I put 1K rounds through it over the Thanksgiving weekend). 0 failures with all types of ammo. Just spring kit replacement for periodic maintenance.

[44fred]

John
Thanks for that link. I'll give S&W a call and ask what they recommend for self defense cartridges in their 1911PC bobtail. This could save me $$ trying to find what works best.

Got the response from Smith.
Thanks Rob

[SonofWWIIDI]

Thanks for the input everyone. I know the Springfield RO and some of the Kimber's aren't technically commander sized, but does anyone recommend taking a look at them too?

Yes. Kimber ultra carry II. Accurate right out of the box. Fun to shoot.

JMHO.

[heidad01]

OP, you can get Metro Arms products from ammoparadise in anaheim or grabagun.com.
You will be surprised at how nice they are, especially for the price!!!! You have to hurry up as they are off roster and need sse.

[MrOrange]

I never saw the point in Commander size with a steel frame, to me the whole point is to make it easier to carry, and the weight matters more than the length difference. Unless yer talking about a horizontal shoulder holster on a real skinny dude.

ojisan summed up my experiences pretty well, although I would add that the difference in recoil is noticeable but not a factor unless you're trying to shave a couple tenths off a course of fire.

I've become so used to the aluminum Commander over the years that when I shoot a gummint model it feels like it's going ker-chunk in slow motion.

If buying for concealed carry, I'd go the CCO route, especially one of the makes that uses a 4" barrel. Despite the shortened height, for some strange reason the Officer's grip feels better to me.

[vliberatore]

If buying for concealed carry, I'd go the CCO route, especially one of the makes that uses a 4" barrel. Despite the shortened height, for some strange reason the Officer's grip feels better to me.

The only thing about that is that if someone wanted to bobtail their carry gun then they can't easily do that to an officer's model.

[badwolf]

The STI Ranger II makes for a great carry gun. STI also makes a variety of other models which are also commander sized. Have found that a commander sized 1911 seems easier to carry than a full-sized -- primarily when it comes to sitting in a vehicle and a small weight difference.

another thumbs up for the STI Ranger II, great pistol. Love mine.

[MrOrange]

The only thing about that is that if someone wanted to bobtail their carry gun then they can't easily do that to an officer's model.

yabut

The start of a bobtail's, uh, "bob", is right about where the end of an Officer's frame is, so moot point. Come to think of it, mebbe that's why the shorter frame feels better to me. Anywho the bobtail is for feels, the Officer's is for conceals.

[JohnCCW]

Got the response from Smith.
Thanks Rob

My old favorite handload for the .45ACP was the old Speer 200gr. "Flying Ash Can" bullet over a max charge of Hercules blue-dot.
Awesomely huge hollow point.