question about AR pistol

[SOCOgunguy]

No such thing as a featureless AR pistol either.

True Dat.



Because the big issue with Evil Rifles in this State is the Pistol Grip.

Thordo's genius configuration focuses on the Stock.

Fixed Stock. No flash hider. No pistol grip. Etc. no evil features.
And no bullet button needed. I can drop and run my 20 round AR Mags.

Where can I get one of those Knife/Axe ARs.. .

[Capybara]

Where can I get one of those Knife/Axe ARs.. .

www.dsarms.com It is called a DSA Z Hawk. And the Thordsen stocks have nothing to do with AR pistols, they are for creating featureless AR rifles.

[Oceanbob]

Where can I get one of those Knife/Axe ARs.. .

Not worth it. And way too heavy. Like a lead pipe....

http://www.dsarms.com/p-14068-ds-arms-z-hawk-ar15-armorers-hatchet-includes-head-cover.aspx

[Quiet]

question about AR pistol

1. do you need a bullet button if your mag only holds 10?

2. if you have a bullet button, can you run 10+rds? (same question for AR rifle also?)

1. Yes. [PC 30515(a)(4)(D)]

2. No. [PC 30515(a)(5)] (No. [PC 30515(a)(2)])


Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer's hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

[envelope]

Thanks for the added information. I've heard of the "no pre-ban mags in post-ban rifles" points, but never saw any penal code on it. I've looked but couldn't find any-- if you know of any, I'll gratefully stand corrected.

As for the magazine lock equipped ARs (i assume bullet buttons), my understanding is that these remove the capability of a "detachable magazine" as required to qualify as a CA assault weapon. I also don't see how this relates to the size magazine one would use.

That's my understanding from a legal perspective-- and my ultimate goal is to get it right and cease any misinformation asap. Again, any penal code posting would be golden. However, my opinion of the SMART thing to do is never use those 30rounders. Given the legal debate among those of us even trying to figure this out, I highly doubt the cops or RSOs have it down either. There is so much gray area in the pre-ban ownership, it's not worth the trouble, even if you're "legally" right.

[NiteQwill]

Thanks for the added information. I've heard of the "no pre-ban mags in post-ban rifles" points, but never saw any penal code on it. I've looked but couldn't find any-- if you know of any, I'll gratefully stand corrected.

As for the magazine lock equipped ARs (i assume bullet buttons), my understanding is that these remove the capability of a "detachable magazine" as required to qualify as a CA assault weapon. I also don't see how this relates to the size magazine one would use.

That's my understanding from a legal perspective-- and my ultimate goal is to get it right and cease any misinformation asap. Again, any penal code posting would be golden. However, my opinion of the SMART thing to do is never use those 30rounders. Given the legal debate among those of us even trying to figure this out, I highly doubt the cops or RSOs have it down either. There is so much gray area in the pre-ban ownership, it's not worth the trouble, even if you're "legally" right.

PC 30515 specifically PROHIBITS the use of 10+ magazines in any weapon that meets assault weapon criteria.

The only way to use 10+ magazines is in a featureless rifle.

The featureless exemption does NOT apply to pistols where the magazine is located outside of the pistol grip. If this is true, the magazine must be locked (bullet button) and not hold more than 10 rounds (even .22 cal pistols).

[Quiet]

PC 30515 specifically PROHIBITS the use of 10+ magazines in any weapon that meets assault weapon criteria.

The only way to use 10+ magazines is in a featureless rifle.

The featureless exemption does NOT apply to pistols where the magazine is located outside of the pistol grip. If this is true, the magazine must be locked (bullet button) and not hold more than 10 rounds (even .22 cal pistols).

What he said.

As for the magazine lock equipped ARs (i assume bullet buttons), my understanding is that these remove the capability of a "detachable magazine" as required to qualify as a CA assault weapon. I also don't see how this relates to the size magazine one would use.

A "bullet button" style maglock makes the firearm's magazine a fixed magazine and not a detachable magazine. [11 CCR 5469(a)]

CA assault weapons laws for semi-auto pistols [PC 30515(a)(5)] and semi-auto rifles [PC 30515(a)(2)] limits the magazine capacity of a fixed magazine to 10 rounds.

Therefore...
Using a large capacity (11+ round) magazine in a firearm with a maglock creates a fixed magazine with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds, which would cause a semi-auto pistol or semi-auto rifle to be an assault weapon.



11 CCR 5469
The following definitions apply to terms used in the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 30515:
(a) “Detachable magazine” means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm with neither disassembly of the firearm action nor use of a tool being required. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. Ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.

Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

[envelope]

Ah, my mistake for missing [PC 30515(a)(2)]. Thank you!

[OmegaTrader]

11 CCR 5469Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, "assault weapon" also means any of the following:
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Thanks for clearing this up. I've always thought that AW only concerns about detachable mags, hence, requiring a bb. Now that I understand it also cover magazine capacity too and that the pre-ban mags are only good for featureless rifle, that's good to know.

[SJgunguy24]

Mag lock= no mags holding more then 10 rounds no matter what.
AR pistols need a mag lock to be legal.

Basically what I learned last week was this.

AR15's and AR pistols have the same rules.

Both must be blocked to 10 rounds and use bullet buttons.

If not, one is an assault rifle, the other is an assault pistol. So in Layman's terms, 10 rounders and mag locks is all you get in this wonderful state.

**Don't quote me with oh what about featureless, or oh if you do xxx and xxx and move you arm left 2 times you can... I'm trying to keep it basic for OP.**

I don't see how much simpler I can make it then my explanation above.
I didn't post the PC because most folks get glossy eyed or are too lazy to read the actual law.
I've had to explain the legality to people who's shoe size was higher then their IQ's in a retail setting. So I have boiled my answers down to the simplest explanation.